It's a subamendment.
Evidence of meeting #22 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chairman.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #22 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chairman.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:10 p.m.
An hon. member
It's a subamendment.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
If it's a subamendment, then I'm going to give the floor back to Mr. Poilievre for his amendment.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Mr. Clerk, we'll have a recorded vote on the Laforest amendment.
Mr. Williams, on a point of order.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
It's the committee that calls for a recorded vote. It's not the chair that calls for a recorded vote. I haven't heard any call for a recorded vote from the floor.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I thought I did, but maybe I didn't.
There's no recorded vote. I will put the question. It's sometimes easier because a lot of people don't raise their hand.
All in favour of the amendment moved by Mr. Laforest, please raise your hand.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I'm going to now go back to Mr. Poilievre, because I believe he has a subsequent amendment.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Again, I haven't heard anyone even make the allegation that Minister Toews has done anything wrong here or that he has failed either by commission or by omission. There's no evidence whatsoever of that, and there's not even any allegation of that.
The only reason he was included in the first place was because of the suggestion that the numerous contracts just under the limit might represent a violation of the rules and therefore he should have been enforcing the rules. That was the rationale for having him in the original motion. We've now removed that from our study and we've made the point that we can't criticized someone for almost exceeding a limit. So the President of the Treasury Board really has no link to this matter whatsoever, and therefore I would ask that he be removed.
On the other contract, related to the budget speech writing, regardless of what you think of that, the Minister of Finance has acknowledged that the administrative rules were not followed, and he has apologized for it. I'm not sure what more the President of the Treasury Board could do in that case.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Mr. Poilievre, once again, the amendment is that the reference to the Honourable Vic Toews, President of the Treasury Board, be deleted in its entirety.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Yes, that he not be asked to testify before this committee.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I'll just summarize in one final sentence.
We have two separate issues. One is a contract that apparently did not follow the rules, for which the Minister of Finance has apologized, and then we have these other contracts that do follow the rules and for which no apology is required. In neither case does the committee require testimony from the President of the Treasury Board. He is totally extraneous to this issue. I would ask that he be removed, and I would be more inclined to support the motion if that were to happen.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Can I turn it around? Mr. Poilievre says it is in fact the Secretary of the Treasury Board who accounts for the rules of the Treasury Board, not the President of the Treasury Board. Mr. Wouters is in here, has been called. He is the person who comes to the public accounts committee and explains the rules; it's not the president.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I'm going to Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, and then I'm going to put the Poilievre amendment.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
In terms of ministers appearing, I'll quickly deal with that particular issue. The historic record will show that ministers have appeared on many occasions before public—
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, they have not appeared on many occasions.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
It's not a point of order.
Keep going, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, you've got 45 seconds.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
I would like to put a question to Mr. Poilievre.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
It's debate, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. Please make your point, and we'll move on.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
I would consider this a friendly amendment if I had assurances that in fact the motion would be supported by all parties.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I can't support it. I can't speak for everyone at the table here. That wouldn't be fair.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Okay, the clerk has just informed me you can't make it contingent on another.
I'm going to put the subamendment, which is very clear.
The amendment moved by Mr. Poilievre is to delete the reference to the Honourable Vic Toews, President of the Treasury Board, from the motion.
(Amendment agreed to)
The amendment is carried. The reference to Mr. Toews is deleted from the motion.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Now we're going to go back to the motion, as amended twice.
A point of order?
