Evidence of meeting #49 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I had understood your question to be specifically about chief financial officers, and I discussed the relationships they are to have to the senior managers. But indeed, the entire organization beneath those CFOs is expected to have qualified financial officers, and—
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
So, you are saying that it's important for the whole team, including the financial officers.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, they all are to be well qualified, and they all are to do their jobs professionally. We expect the managers to benefit from their efforts.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you very much. Over the past three years, I've had the opportunity to comment on the Public Accounts of Canada. I brought up concerns about spending related to legal fees and out-of-court settlements. Within the Department of Justice, the number of prosecutors asked to defend disputes related to problems in the awarding of contracts have increased in the past two fiscal years.
Does the department have a directive or policy that explains this increase and that justifies holding proceedings that have proven to be very costly? I would like your analysis of this situation.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'm sorry, we're not able to respond to that question.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
If you can't respond to it now, will you consider it, and then after consideration send a written response to the clerk, in both official languages?
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I also have a question about the relocation program for members of the Canadian Forces, the RCMP and the federal public service. The federal government awarded a contract including expenditures for the administration of relocation files and expenditures for services provided by third-party service providers. These include property management, appraisals, building inspections, realtor services, rental search services and legal services.
Why do the Public Accounts of Canada not include any payment to service providers, aside from Brookfield Global Relocation Services? Could you add a section for those expenditures, given the fact that they total more than $2 billion?
Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management and Analysis Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you. There are parts of the public accounts that are printed, obviously, but there are other sections that are available online only. You will see additional detail around large payments that are available only online, but they are available to the public.
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I checked that section and those transactions. I obtained information on those financial transactions through an access to information request. That information is not in the Public Accounts.
Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management and Analysis Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
My understanding is that if the payments are above a certain threshold, they're required to be posted there. We can verify to see if there were payments above that threshold to make sure we've captured them all, if that's the question--
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Could you provide us with a detailed analysis of this $2 billion in spending?
Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management and Analysis Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I don't know which departments have actually made those payments. If it's specific to a department, it's better for them to give you the analysis. If it's a matter of ensuring the disclosure is following our rules, we can undertake to ensure we have the disclosure correct. But if you'd like an analysis of the payments, I'd suggest that's a better question for--
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I'm more interested in disclosure. Those amounts are not in the Public Accounts.
Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management and Analysis Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
We'll verify the amount of the payments in question. If there are any that are above our threshold, they should be there. And we'll verify that the disclosure is appropriate. If it's not, we'll let you know, but my--
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I would like you to provide those figures in detail.
Thank you.
Another issue deals with the environment. Perhaps I haven't been clear enough that I want to know about the famous oil sands promotion strategy.
The expenditures are scattered throughout the accounting documents and various departments. Among other things, when we look at the service contracts, we see that the federal government hired a lobby firm in 2009.
It also contains details on the campaigns conducted at the embassy in Washington, which hosted events to promote the oil sands industry.
I would like to have the details on the financial commitments made by the government toward that particular industry and to find how much those promotional events cost.
I would also like to know if the government made expenditures in Europe, if there was a campaign similar to the one in Washington. Expenditures were made by a Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade group called the "oil sands advisory group". There are no details anywhere about the group's expenditures or activities. Since the department is spreading out the activities—it's a concerted activity since an interdepartmental group is involved—is it possible for you to put all the expenditures in one place for us?
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Anyway, I only wanted to clarify my question that I want a written answer to.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Before I go to Mr. Shipley, I have a process question.
Mr. Matthews talked about some documentation that's available in the public accounts and some that is put on a website. I'm not clear about the rationale of what goes where.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
In terms of the summary financial statement, I think it's fair to say it's meant to capture the entirety of the operations of the entities that are consolidated into what is the whole-of-government view. But in terms of the level of detail and the nature of the reporting, that will be dictated by the public sector accounting standards, as Mr. Wiersema said. That's going to dictate the form and nature of the reporting at that level.
In terms of the details, much of the public accounts—the three published volumes—are traditional disclosures. Some of the newer disclosures that are being referenced, the proactive disclosure, to take an example, are more recent.
Frankly, I think the use of things like the Internet makes them a little more accessible than something in hard copy and published once a year. I think the view now is that much information of that sort is more useful to users if we can have it disclosed through that sort of a means.
I think it's a trend you're likely to see. We'll rely less and less on large hard-copy volumes and more and more on the more flexible reporting-type style.
Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management and Analysis Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
To add a bit of precision, a number of years back, the decision was taken to produce.... As you might notice, volume III is quite thick. On the public accounts website you will see exact replicas of these three documents, but you will also see an additional bit of information that frankly is too cumbersome to print. It's around payments to contractors that are above a certain size and things of that nature. That's been that way for a number of years. I believe it's titled as “unpublished”, but it is public, and it is formally part of the public accounts.
Liberal