Where that's appropriate, yes....
Evidence of meeting #48 for Public Accounts in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #48 for Public Accounts in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Director, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Where that's appropriate, yes....
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Your report, your study, didn't find any issue about timeliness in that effort did it?
4:15 p.m.
Director, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We didn't look at the provincial side of health care.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I would be worried if you had found a problem, but if you didn't look at it, didn't find a problem, I'm okay with that.
Also, Mr. Berthelette, you mentioned in your opening comments the 24-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week mental health helpline that the department operates to give immediate assistance to veterans in crisis. There are no timeliness issues about that mental health support for veterans, are there?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
No, sir, there are none.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Also as I understand it, you found that veterans can access short-term mental health supports in a timely way under the veterans affairs rehabilitation program. Is that correct?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Mr. Chair, the rehabilitation program is a separate program and we found that the decisions related to eligibility met the standard the department had put in place.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Perhaps I will ask you, Mr. Doiron. The short-term mental health supports under the rehabilitation program if needed.... If somebody said to me that they won't last the eight months or more that it might take for the disability benefits eligibility decision to kick in, would that be right or wrong?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs
There would be services available to them within that eight months.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
So rehabilitation program benefits, if needed, can last for that length of time?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs
It can and if they are in a crisis or anything we would refer them to either one of our operational stress injury clinics or to provincial mental health centres.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
What about the services provided, Mr. Doiron, under the short-term mental health supports of the rehabilitation program? Are they capable of meeting the needs of veterans until an eligibility decision under the disability program kicks in?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs
Yes, they are.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
All right.
Mr. Berthelette, did your study find any evidence that would contradict what Mr. Doiron has told us, that the rehabilitation mental health supports are capable of meeting the needs of veterans for that pre-eligibility period under the disability plan?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I think to be clear we have to make a distinction between the rehabilitation program and the disability program. The rehabilitation program is not a bridging program into the disability program. It stands on its own two feet, so to speak. It has its own eligibility requirements. It has its own objectives and they aren't shared with the disability program. A person who wants to access a disability program would not necessarily access the rehabilitation program as an interim step because they're two separate programs.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Not necessarily but certainly could, isn't that correct? They're not mutually exclusive.
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Except—
Sorry, Mr. Chair.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Except that the goal of the rehabilitation program is not to be a bridging program, it's to assist in the transition to civilian life.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Thank you.
Moving along, Monsieur Giguère, you have the floor, sir.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It goes without saying that mental health disorders are a major problem. Since 2004, 168 members of the military have committed suicide. In addition, of the 2,620 veterans who have died, 696 committed suicide. Therefore, 27% of former members of the military who died committed suicide. It would seem that mental health problems are five times more deadly than the Taliban.
We should be asking ourselves a number of questions, particularly concerning section 3.7 of the report, which states that members of the military often fear declaring an illness because it might threaten their career.
The Canadian armed forces recently adopted a series of positions that seem to harm those who make these requests, particularly veterans who fought in Afghanistan.
Is it possible to avoid penalizing people who wish to access mental health services in the Canadian armed forces, by simply letting them go, for example, a few months prior to their retirement? Do you have control over this type of situation?
4:20 p.m.
Surgeon General, Commander Canadian Forces Health Services Group, Department of National Defence
Individuals with mental health problems are kept in the Canadian armed forces for a long time. They sometimes remain there for a number of years before employment restrictions are placed on them that no longer allow them to pursue military service.
If they are kept in their position as soldiers, we may not be doing them any good. In fact, putting them in a situation where they would relive operational stress could worsen their condition. It could very well kill them.
In those cases, they need to be provided with ongoing access to the best health care offered in Canada. Authorities from mental health organizations have told the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada that they need to be provided with Cadillac care.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I would like to ask you a question on this issue.
Do you know whether the 168 members of the military who committed suicide were receiving treatment?
4:20 p.m.
Surgeon General, Commander Canadian Forces Health Services Group, Department of National Defence
We are the only organization in Canada that conducts a complete analysis of each suicide, on a case-by-case basis. Our analysis shows that roughly half of the individuals who committed suicide were receiving treatment. This data is similar to data for the general public. The other half was not receiving treatment. On the one hand, treatment is insufficient and more research is needed. On the other, there is still work to be done to encourage individuals in this other half to ask for care.
That being said, only one third of the suicides that have unfortunately occurred since the beginning of operations in Afghanistan occurred in that country. This means that most of the suicides were caused by the same problems affecting the general public. Whether members of the military participated in operations or not, the suicide rate remains the same.