Public Accounts Committee on June 14th, 2018

[Marie Lemay]

I don't know what to tell you. Again, I was not there. The one thing that I can tell you is that IBM agreed to go ahead with this.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

The decision was made by whom to proceed with 55% of the required amount?

[Marie Lemay]

At the end of the day, deputies are accountable under their watch, but executives work.... Was the decision at that point made by the person, or was it discussed with the deputy? I don't know.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Suppose there's a project today that comes to your table and the executives come and say this project requests $274 million, but the budgeted amount is $155 million. Will you, as deputy minister, decide to still go ahead with the project, or will you bring it to the notice of the minister?

[Marie Lemay]

This is a really good question because I just told you when we started that we manage 430 plus 2,500 projects. It's about 3,000 projects that go on at PSPC. They're not all the same, which is what I was saying earlier. I think what we're missing—

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

This is not one tiny project.

[Marie Lemay]

That's it, so we need to be able to say at the beginning, “Does this project require special attention from the deputy head level? What is the oversight for these special projects with the government?”

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

No, I'm sorry, that is not what I'm asking. If it comes to you today that a project requires $274 million and the budgeted amount is $155 million, will you decide to go ahead with this project without getting the concurrence of the minister?

[Marie Lemay]

I don't need the concurrence. I would need to make sure that I inform, to make sure that's it.... If I think there's an issue, I would....

I mean, we're talking about a hypothesis here, but I would definitely—

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

It's not a hypothesis. This actually happened. Suppose the same thing comes to you.

[Marie Lemay]

Okay. I will answer this differently. I apologize.

What would I do in a situation like that? I'd sit down with the staff and we'd go through it. I would need justification and explanation.

If there's a good reason why we should go ahead, and I'm comfortable with it, that's how I would brief them. If not, I would send it back to the drawing board.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

How can one be comfortable going ahead with any project, whether it's an IT project or a building project, with just 55% of the amount required?

[Marie Lemay]

For the same project...? No. But if it's okay to split it into.... You're asking me a loaded question there.

For the same project, no.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

I will come back to you, because I have limited time.

I have a question for Mr. Goulet.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Very quickly.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

When you talked to the executives, did you ask them with whom they discussed going ahead with the project, where they got the approval, or who made the decision to go ahead with the project?

[Jean Goulet]

This information was ascertained on the basis of the documents we have and conversations with a variety of individuals.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

No, my question is this. Did you ask them who made the decision to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thanks, Mr. Arya.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

It's four and a half minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes, I know you've, but you have five seconds left, so let him finish his—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Is that the chairman's prerogative?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

No, no.

Okay, Mr. Arya, finish quickly, please.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Did you ask who made the decision to go ahead with this project implementation with just 55% of the amount required?

[Jean Goulet]

We asked one individual, and they basically said that they did.