Evidence of meeting #127 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offender.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
I now have a question for you, Mr. Hayes.
According to your notes, you “found that parole officers did not meet with offenders as often as they should have.” Is that in comparison with another approach that you know about? You said that the parole officers didn't meet with the offenders as often as they should have, but what's your point of comparison?
9:45 a.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
When we looked closely at the 50 cases, we were trying to determine how often each offender was expected to meet with the parole officer. As Ms. Kelly was saying, different levels of supervision are required. In each case, we were trying to determine the level of supervision for the offender. Our review covered a 12-month period, which was the first year of release. If the level of supervision changed, we took this into account in our calculations to determine whether expectations had been met.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Swales.
Now, we will go back to Mr. Kelly, please, for five minutes.
9:45 a.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
Thank you.
This is a committee for accountability. We study reports from the Auditor General, and departments are asked to explain what has happened in their departments.
I want to draw to your attention, on page 13 of the report in English, to “Measurement of results”, where the Auditor General found that “performance measures did not include data on offences requiring incarceration in provincial or territorial facilities. CSC officials informed us that such data on convictions was excluded because it was difficult to gather.”
The Auditor General, though, made the point of mentioning that this was public information.
I'm relatively new to the committee compared to some of the others. However, I have seen over and over again, from a variety of different departments that have been before our committee, the poor collection of data, insufficient retention of data, in particular when it's from public sources. I mean, how hard can it really be?
I would like an explanation for why something that would seem as obvious as tracking offences that would have a person incarcerated back into a provincial facility is not tracked as part of the monitoring of results.
9:50 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Again, I will turn to Mr. Motiuk, because he tracks all of our data.
However, once offenders completed their sentence, we didn't follow up in terms of.... We only knew whether or not they had been in a provincial or territorial facility if they returned to custody. Otherwise, we didn't know whether they picked up a fine or had gone to the provincial institution. It's only when they return to us.....
From time to time, we have done studies, but now, in working with Public Safety and Stats Canada, we are trying to find an automated solution so we can get access to that data.
9:50 a.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
That's excellent. I'm pleased that there are steps being taken—
9:50 a.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
—but from an accountability point of view, this seems like a pretty obvious thing.
Why was this not done? We're well into the information age. Why are we right now talking about not having kept track of offenders who have gone, not into federal system but into the provincial system?
9:50 a.m.
Assistant Commissioner, Policy, Correctional Service of Canada
Of course, measuring recidivism is an important performance metric in any criminal justice system. When they're under our federal supervision, or under our jurisdiction, we know if they've come back and what kinds of offences they have committed out in the provinces and territories, because we systematically gather that at readmission. Also, while they're under federal supervision, if they're still under a warrant with us, we know if they have committed a new crime in the community.
When they're finished their sentence with the federal system and they go out into the community, the difficulty for us is that, without some effort on our part, we don't know when they commit another crime. We would have to actually link in to the Canadian Police Information Centre system and make that match and that linkage.
We know there are some technical, logical issues in this, but we are going to try to find ways of doing it, of making a better automated linkage on a routine basis. This is information we've seen in the past in studies. They've been very expensive, because we have had to hand-code them. It takes a couple of years. Nevertheless, as you pointed out, in this era of automation, we're looking for technology that will assist us in doing this.
9:50 a.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
What did they say when you pointed this out? Were you the first person to suggest that this was important information to keep track of?
9:50 a.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
Yes, we feel that it is important information. Without the information from territorial and provincial convictions, it's difficult to know for sure whether the rate of reconviction is indeed declining. The commissioner has provided statistics on the rate of federal reconvictions, but we don't know overall without the information from the provinces and territories.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
February 19th, 2019 / 9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you for coming.
This is in regard to the first recommendation: identifying offender population profile characteristics that are critical to release planning. The selection of accommodation options was to be completed last November 30. Was that completed, and what was the outcome?
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
It's under the management response and action plan. It says that the assistant commissioner, correctional operations and programs, is responsible.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Ms. Yip, are you quoting from the action plan or from the Auditor General's report?
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
This is from the Correctional Services action plan to address the recommendations of the OAG. It's from Correctional Services.
9:50 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
If I look at it correctly, I have an update for that.
Is this what was to be completed by November 30, 2018?
9:50 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
This was to identify offender population profile characteristics that are critical to release planning. My understanding is that this has been completed. The initial list of characteristics critical to release planning has been established and will be used in conjunction with projected releases data. Additional characteristics may be added following consultation and depending on data availability. So that first part has been done.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
What is being done to be proactive instead of reactive, to take a long-term approach to address the housing shortage? I found in your documents that the greatest anticipated demand for housing in Ontario is at 32%.
9:55 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
We're working on a national long-term accommodation plan, but in the meantime, we've had many discussions with the regional deputy commissioners of each region to talk about this. I can tell you that, for 2017-18, to November 30, there were 61 beds added. By the end of this fiscal year, there are going to be another 77 beds added, and there are already 120 beds planned for 2019-20 as well as other potential bed availability.
At this point, we're going to ensure that we collect all of the information from the regions, and, as I said, have a comprehensive solution. As Mr. Tousignant pointed out, it's not just the number of beds. If you look at the number of beds we have available and the number of offenders who require residency, we have enough beds. Now the thing is whether they are the right beds in the right place at the right time, because we have offenders who require specialized types of beds. We have indigenous offenders who may follow traditional paths and are looking for specific beds. We have offenders with mental health issues who have to go to a treatment centre, so this is what we want a line of sight on at the national level, and ensuring, as I said, that we have the right beds.
In terms of bed availability, it's not an issue everywhere. For example, in the Atlantic region, it's not an issue. There are enough beds for the number of offenders who are in the community.
In some pockets, though, for example in Ontario and especially in Toronto, that's more of an issue, and there's lots of work being done to look at increasing the bed capacity, potentially even looking at establishing another community correctional centre in that area.