Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[Anne Kelly]

Yes. Larry can speak more to it, but we certainly track outcomes. The percentage of offenders who are not readmitted to federal custody within five years following the expiration of their sentence is 85%. The rate has been increasing, so we are quite successful. The other thing is that there has been a decrease in the number of revocations, which is when offenders are returned to federal custody. This is also a testament to the work being done by those who work in the community.

[Randeep Sarai]

This also includes new offences, so not just breaching any parole rules, right? Obviously, reoffending is a breach, but it includes reoffending in any new cases.

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

That's right. We also split it out, in terms of those who are coming back for technical violations of their conditions, as well as reoffence. They're all on the decline.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

Mr. Nuttall.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the department for coming.

Thanks for the work done by the Auditor General's office.

I have a pretty specific question. One of the things that we're facing in our community—I know this is an issue that's expanding across the country and certainly isn't unique to Barrie—as former offenders are coming back into the community, is a heavy percentage being targeted for drug use by drug dealers. There seems to be a lack of supports available between the emergence of the individual back into the community and specifically what we're seeing in the opioid crisis as a whole.

Is there tracking done? I know there would be tracking done on drug use as a whole. Obviously, there would be requirements under the emergence back into the community.

Is there any information that would show, for lack of a better word, the rate at which individuals are using while they are in custody and then using in the community when they emerge back into it?

[Anne Kelly]

Yes. We do keep data in terms of in the community. It's possible that offenders will incur charges for drug-related offences. Definitely in terms of the opioid crisis, what's happening in the community at large we see reflected in our institutions and in the community, which is a concern to us.

We do offer programs to offenders. We also offer opiate substitution therapy to offenders. I would certainly ask Ms. Wheatley to speak to that.

In terms of the community, if offenders have difficulties with alcohol or drugs, normally a special condition is going to be imposed upon them by the Parole Board of Canada. That special condition has to be monitored.

The other thing that we're doing for offenders who are being released to the community is that we now have an initiative called the take-home naloxone kit, which they leave with. Also, through communicating with health professionals, they can be directed to where they can go if they require more.

Maybe I'll let Jennifer speak to that.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Before we get there, I guess this is what I actually wanted to draw out, Mr. Chair, just to focus.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I'm not sure if she understood the question, the way that you asked it.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Yes, maybe I'll be more direct because I was trying to couch it a little bit, to be fair.

I have a real issue with.... We say “supervision”. That's the language we're using, supervision of offenders in the community with drug use. It amazes me—and I've been doing a lot of research on this—that we have people moving back into the community as addicts still, which means they have been using while in custody within our penal system.

With regard to access to health care, is there not a route directly for those individuals? The correlation between drug use and reoffending is very real.

Is there not a system in place to at least do our best to make mandatory changes within those individuals' lives?

[Anne Kelly]

Maybe I'll try again, and I'll ask Ms. Wheatley.

Definitely, there are offenders who are released to the community who still have drug abuse problems. In those cases, as I mentioned, normally there's a special condition that's imposed upon them by the Parole Board of Canada. We can also do random urinalysis in the community, or if we have reasons to suspect that they are using, we do urinalysis. If it tests positive, then we can take action against the offender. The offender can be suspended or can be revoked and returned to federal custody, absolutely.

We do monitor that.

Jennifer.

[Jennifer Wheatley, Assistant Commissioner, Health Services, Correctional Service of Canada]

Problematic substance use is a very complex health need. We're fully committed to implementing all pillars of the Canada health strategy, which includes the enforcement elements that Commissioner Kelly spoke about and harm reduction such as take-home naloxone and treatment.

Whether an offender is using or not while they're incarcerated, they can still have a substance misuse problem. Sometimes using a substance is indicative of access to a substance. You can have offenders who don't use while they're incarcerated, but still have a substance misuse problem on release. Substance misuse is very difficult to treat. I won't get into all the technicalities. Whether you're in a community treatment centre for the average Canadian or whether you're in our services, there are very low success rates for substance misuse treatment. We're certainly committed to doing our best.

To improve our approach—particularly in response to the opioid crisis, and in addition to the take-home naloxone and the nursing teaching—we're reviewing our entire opiate substitution therapy program to make sure we have all the supports, including the medical supports, the psychosocial supports, etc., so that we can have the best outcome possible for this disorder that is very difficult to treat.

For example, we've seen a doubling of the number of offenders on opiate substitution therapy in recent years. It used to be 400; it's now 800. We know that's a stabilizing factor. Offenders on opiate substitution will be more ready for release into the community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Arseneault, you have five minutes.

[René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to thank all the witnesses for joining us.

I'm a newcomer here. This is my first meeting. I want to apologize in advance, because my questions may not be relevant. I don't have the knowledge that my colleagues have accumulated over time.

Before I speak to Mr. Hayes, I'll start with you, Ms. Kelly.

The Auditor General's report highlights two issues. First, there's the lack of housing, which seems critical. Second, according to the Office of the Auditor General, the offenders under community supervision haven't been managed properly.

In your opinion, when did it become apparent that the number of offenders being released would skyrocket? When did this issue start being taken into account in order to find a solution?

[Anne Kelly]

The percentage of offenders under community supervision has increased in recent years. In 2012-13, they amounted to 33% of the offender population, and now they amount to 40%.

[René Arseneault]

Yes. I've seen the figures. Since there was a change in culture, I suppose it was known that there would be an increase. On your end, when did you realize that this would happen and that the situation would need to be addressed?

[Anne Kelly]

We conducted an internal analysis in January 2017 to determine what was happening not only in the community, but also in our institutions, in order to make projections regarding the offender population. We then started looking at the issue. The audit also took place at this time.

As I said earlier, a great deal of work is being carried out at the local and regional level to increase the number of beds available in the community. The district directors are working very hard in their regions. They know the offenders and they know what type of beds the offenders need.

However, there was no national plan. I fully agree with the Auditor General on this point. We need to know what's happening across the country. In addition, if something in the regions is blocking the increase in the number of beds, we can help the regions at the national level. This makes a great deal of sense to us. We're working with this in mind.

[Alain Tousignant, Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada]

May I add something, Mr. Arseneault?

[René Arseneault]

Yes.

[Alain Tousignant]

The difficulty lies not only in the number of beds, but also in the type and location of the beds. If we consider only the number of beds in relation to the number of people in the community, we can see that there are enough beds. However, we need specialized beds. If we look at the type of beds that we need and the location of those beds, that's when things become difficult to manage and take time.

[René Arseneault]

Okay. This brings me to my next question.

We're told that parole officers lack information and don't supervise offenders closely enough. Some crimes are lighter, and some are more serious. Do you have a record for each offender on release showing the seriousness or lightness of the crimes? What's your approach? Do have records that include the offender's name, health status, crimes, or criminal record?

[Anne Kelly]

For each offender?

[René Arseneault]

Yes.

[Anne Kelly]

Absolutely. We have an offender management system that contains all the information on—

[René Arseneault]

Does the system contain information on each offender?

[Anne Kelly]

Yes. The system is individualized. It contains all the information on the inmates, including their record, their crimes, the various factors, their associates and their potential motivation to reintegrate. It contains a great deal of information.