Public Accounts Committee on May 2nd, 2019

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

But should there be a breakup of some of the properties back to Heritage Canada so that they're dedicated? I'm just wondering whether it's too much for Parks Canada to handle. It has been 16 years since the audit, and I think Canadians want to hear exactly how long it's going to take to give us a complete list and how long it's going to take to have the audits done on the current buildings, to move ahead.

[Michael Nadler]

The agency had a complete list across 33 business units located across the country. Compiling that list didn't meet the speed requirements of the audit. We're rectifying this. We'll have the national database up to date by the fall of 2019.

I can't speculate on a machinery change that might place national historic sites in a different department.

The challenge I raised in my response to the previous question was that it is true that Parks Canada as an asset manager had a capital budget that was probably too low for the demands of the maintenance of its assets.

Like my colleagues, I think it's important to recognize that Parks Canada is typically viewed as an institution that protects and shares national parks and national historic sites. What some folks may not understand is that we're also responsible for significant portions of the Trans-Canada Highway and significant portions of Canada's waterways, and those are highly demanding assets that require ongoing investment and can be priorities because they relate to public safety and transportation. Based on previous audits and our own analyses, we thus brought forward successfully a series of proposals for recapitalization of our aging asset base, and we're now working with Finance Canada on a long-term solution for ongoing recap.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Is there a timeline that you're working with to have the assessments of the buildings completed?

[Joëlle Montminy]

We do have up-to-date assessments of our buildings at Parks Canada.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

So we have a full list and all the assessments have been done?

[Joëlle Montminy]

Yes.

In 2012 we had a complete list done of all of our assets, and priorities were set as part of that. We do conditions reports on a regular basis as well. The condition is not an issue for Parks Canada. We know the conditions of our buildings.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Okay.

Have any conditions been rectified of buildings that we were looking at in this report where the state of some of the buildings was that were nearly going to fall in? Are we at risk of losing any historic buildings currently due to structural failures?

[Joëlle Montminy]

We prioritize those where there is significant risk, and that's part of the investment that's been made in our places over the last several years. There's a deterioration of some of our buildings but we do prioritize those that are more at risk.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I'll take the one minute left of Mr. Davidson's time, if I may.

I'll ask Ms. Gomez if she saw that in the audit she did. Did you feel that Parks Canada had a proper estimation of the condition of the buildings?

[Susan Gomez, Director, Office of the Auditor General]

We asked for that information in order to confirm some of the information within the databases. At times we weren't provided with that information. For example, if there was documentation to support information within the databases, at times that information wasn't available.

[The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Were you given a reason for that?

[Susan Gomez]

We were just told it wasn't available. They didn't have it.

[The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Yip for five minutes.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

One of the recommendations from the OAG is that Parks Canada should provide up-to-date information to the public and to parliamentarians.

Can you update us on what has been done? It's recommendation number three.

[Joëlle Montminy]

This is part of our response, in terms of making our national database up to date. Based on that, we will then be able to provide that information through Treasury Board where the reporting is mostly done. We will be in a better position to provide that information to Parliament and parliamentarians, and Canadians.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

How do you currently assess the accuracy of your information?

[Joëlle Montminy]

Again, the information about the number of buildings that are under our care and the conditions was always available with our field units that are responsible for the day-to-day maintenance of our assets. That information is accurate, and it was there at the local level. We recognize that the challenge was with our national database of all assets and that's what we undertook to rectify in a timely manner.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'd like to follow up with your action plan, 3.1, regarding reviewing the process of how information is transferred into both the directory of federal heritage designations and the Canadian register of historic places.

The deadline is the spring of this year. Has that been completed and has the review process been changed?

[Genevieve Charrois]

In terms of review, we know where we were missing the proper process to make the information on the Canadian register fully accurate. We know about that. Right now we're correcting the situation. The full correction of all the linkages is not done but the review has been completed.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

My background is in insurance. I want to follow up on Scot's concerns about the fact that the heritage buildings are in such bad condition.

Does it pose a safety risk to visitors and to staff? I'm worried if there's any increase in claims or liabilities, or lawsuits. The government receives a lot of lawsuits. If this is something that can be prevented, that would be good.

[Michael Nadler]

Absolutely. In fact, in the management of all of Parks Canada's assets, public safety and the safety of our staff are our priority. As I mentioned, that can mean that we sometimes prioritize investments in what would normally be classified as non-heritage assets that are fundamental to public safety over heritage assets.

We don't allow visitation, and we carefully manage work in sites that might be in a dangerous condition.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Do you know how many sites have been closed down because of that?

[Michael Nadler]

I'd have to come back with a number.

[The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

We'd welcome that information. Thank you.