Public Accounts Committee on March 10th, 2016

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank you for being here this morning and for being involved in the process.

It is important to know that we are responsible for maximizing taxpayer dollars, and I know that this file is a big ship, if I may put it that way. It's a big ship that is difficult to move quickly and re-route. It is a long process.

With what I'm hearing this morning, I'm a little concerned about where we are steering this ship. I have an existential and basic question: are we going the right way to get there? Ms. Murray mentioned that British Columbia made this migration or modernization in phases, by category, by sector.

My question for you is this: are we currently taking the right approach to modernize our systems?

[Ron Parker]

I can't look back and guess whether it was the best approach. What really matters is where we are now.

As I just said, it is vital that these projects function at the same time because each one has important aspects that facilitate other projects. I think that we started on this road and will move ahead like this. However, if other experts give us advice that can show us a better way, we will consider those methodologies.

John, do you want to add something?

[John Glowacki Jr.]

Thank you.

What I would offer, Mr. Chair, is that what we are doing is actual quite typical from the industry. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of cases of going down this road, maybe not quite as big, but certainly going through this same process, and the methodology often is very similar.

Take the infrastructure, because as Ron noted, it is interconnected and there are many interdependencies. You need to take these together. To take them in isolation can cause problems. Going this route is actually quite typical in the managed service provider industry.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

In fact, as the Government of Canada, we mustn't be the norm. We need to be leaders. I think we have to wonder. I don't doubt what has been done; I'm saying that we have to be responsible and that, if this isn't the right plan, we need to change direction and make decisions now.

We need to know, by considering existing systems, how much time we need to get the boat level. If you take a snapshot of the current situation, you are probably able to tell. We understand that IT is constantly evolving and that there are options along the way. We are all thinking that we will do what is best so that we don't have to do it again in two years.

If we take a snapshot of the system now, are you able to tell us how long we will need to do the update with current technologies? After that, when there are additional expenses, we will need to see whether the government is interested in investing.

[Ron Parker]

Mr. Chair, we can't make this calculation right now, but I would like to point out that we are open to the advice of experts and others. That's part of the process that we are following to update the plan.

We also fully agree that changes occur rapidly in IT. It's incredible. The growth in IT demand is also incredible. We are going to take into account the developments since the last updates, and I think it will be important that we adopt a methodology that will adjust to technological changes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Okay, Mr. Parker, thank you.

Now we'll move back to Mr. Lefebvre, please, for five minutes.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

We hope you see how important this is to us. You are the first group that we have officially asked to appear before the committee. We received the Auditor General's report in the fall, we met, and we decided that this report was what we wanted to discuss first. It demonstrates the importance that you heard in our comments.

You said that the transformation plan will be tabled again in fall 2016. I would like to know how this plan will be different from the previous one, or the draft of the previous plan. I would like us to look a bit to the past, then talk about the future plan.

[Ron Parker]

We need to put in place projects and determine the interdependence between projects, the capacity of service providers and how to manage them. To do that, the experience of the past four years is very helpful to us.

We have reviewed all the hypotheses behind the former plans, and we have done an update to adjust to current circumstances. It is a work in progress and has not been completed. So it is difficult for me to say whether the plan will be very different from past plans. However, we will certainly be discussing this in the fall.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

The Auditor General's report talks about the service baseline. To measure and quantify services, we need to know where we're starting from. We note that this was not the case. Will this plan take that into account?

[Ron Parker]

Absolutely. We are going to be setting service targets. What's difficult is creating a financial base retroactive to 2008 or 2009.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

You have to start somewhere, from 2010 or 2011. You need to draw a line somewhere.

[Ron Parker]

We are starting now with service measures. We just published the first estimates for service levels. We will also increase these measures over time, as recommended by the Auditor General.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Excellent.

I have one last question, Mr. Chair.

In terms of funding, I didn't find your budget clear. The Auditor General's report indicated that your budget was $1.9 billion. There was also mention of $2 billion overall. Could you tell us a little more about the idea of controlling expenses, the inventory and others? I'm afraid that there is no control of the services being provided nor any way to do so. How can we control a budget if we don't know what direction to take? That's a big concern for me.

[Ron Parker]

Sound financial management is absolutely essential. I will ask Ms. Fillion to explain a little bit more about our control measures and the fiscal programs.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

The programs or the fiscal problems?

[Ron Parker]

Programs to control finances.

[Manon Fillion, Director General and Deputy Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services, Shared Services Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm pleased to be here to answer questions.

The budget is $2 billion. That is roughly the budget since the organization was created in 2011-12.

In terms of the funding structures, credits of about $1.5 billion to $1.6 billion have been adopted since the organization began. We also have an envelope from partners and clients, which is about $400 million or $410 million since the organization's creation.

We have spoken a lot about challenges. We have tried to reassure you by saying just how well we are managing the organization. Since its creation, the organization's challenge has been maintaining the level of services it inherited and that, in terms of service standards, was not standard and completely diversified. That also includes the type of services offered internally to partners.

What we have done that has helped us to better manage the department is to create 25 services that we offer to clients and that they can purchase. For each service, we set standards based on the services offered when the organization was created.

As you said, technology changes rapidly. Things move quickly. Certain services that we provide today were not offered at the time. So we are putting in place a pricing strategy to differentiate the service standards that were covered by the credits when the organization was created, and all the various broader services or new services for which we will invoice a certain amount of money per service, because that is really a service-by-service approach.

The other important thing that is allowing us to move forward and that is telling us we are on the right track, is the fact that we are also aware that we have reduced the per unit cost for all services. The issue is managing service consumption by partners. At Shared Services Canada, it is our duty and our responsibility to provide each partner with information on service consumption so that they are aware of the services they are using and do not request services that aren't reasonable or completely frivolous. If that is the case, we can at least recover the costs for this type of service.

So that is what we did. I am quite passionate when it comes to talking about this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much. We're a little over.

We'll go back to Mr. Poilievre, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

We're on limited time, so I'm just going to ask some pointed, factual questions and hopefully get straight answers regarding the dates on which you're going to deliver your goals.

One email system for all 500,000 inboxes: when will that be done?

[Ron Parker]

We do not have a precise date.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

When will you have a date for it?

[Ron Parker]

Mr. Chair, we will have a revised date when the vendor provides a revised migration plan.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

You added 47,000 emails onto the new system last year, by my calculation. According to this report, a year ago today, there were 3,000 mailboxes on the new system, and you now say there are 57,000. That means 47,000 have been added in the last year. At that rate, it will take more than 10 years to put them all in one system. Is your plan to have it done by 2026?

[Ron Parker]

Mr. Chair, there are strong incentives for the vendor to accomplish the migration as quickly as possible. The vendor gets paid according to the number of email boxes created and transferred.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Who is the vendor?