Evidence of meeting #60 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.
I don't disagree with the 300,000. I just think it's important to note, as Mr. Swales acknowledged, that it's an estimate based on a sample.
Nonetheless, for me the practicality is that policies were not followed. I want to make sure that the policies are adhered to and that everyone's transaction, if you will, as they cross the border is properly recorded in the system. We've communicated that, as a result of the work of the Auditor General.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
But you do agree that there are some instances where the information is not captured.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Okay.
Coming to the smaller border crossings, I believe there are no managers on site to supervise staff, nor reviews of electronic information to make sure that the controls are followed. What are you doing about that?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Perhaps I could get Caroline to answer.
Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Thank you for the question.
Just for clarity, you're asking whether or not, at the small ports of entry, we are also ensuring that the policy is adhered to? Yes. Basically, at all of our ports of entry, the policy must be adhered to. The size of the port of entry doesn't matter.
There are superintendents who still have to provide and perform their duties, even in the small ports of entry that exist.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Talking of the superintendents, I was told that they spend less than 25% of their time overseeing border service officers, because most of their time is spent on administrative tasks. What measures are being taken there?
Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
As the president was saying earlier, administrative tasks are a very important part of the overall role of a superintendent, but one balance that we're aiming to achieve is to make sure they spend just as much time in the oversight and supervisory role that is expected of them.
It is a challenge to ensure they're keeping that balance, but they are expected to be able to do the administrative duties—which are important, as the president outlined—as well as continuing to ensure the appropriate supervision of their staff.
Liberal
Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
At smaller ports of entry, a superintendent could be overseeing more than one. That is primarily because in some cases they are fairly close to each other and are ports of entry where there are still two border service officers at a time, at the very least, on a shift. Each of the border service officers is having to hold the others accountable. Like anybody in their day-to-day job, there is not somebody watching over what they're doing every second of the day.
We're hiring our border service officers with the intention that they will have the integrity required and expected of them, and a superintendent is available to them at any point in time. They're not always physically seeing the superintendent, because they are shared between smaller ports of entry.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Mr. Arya and Ms. Xavier.
We'll now move back to the second round, the five-minute round, and Mr. Jeneroux.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wanted to extend my welcome to everyone here at the committee, and also to the Bangladesh delegation that's here. Welcome to our committee.
Before I get into my questioning, Mr. Chair, I want to just clarify for the record that we, as a committee, sent a very strong message a month or two ago about ensuring that we have deputy ministers at this table.
I see that Ms. Jacovella, associate deputy minister, is here. We welcome you. However, you are not a deputy minister, and we were hoping we could clarify why the deputy minister isn't here?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Yes, this was discussed, and the deputy minister is out of town or out of the country. All the other departments were able to come today, and we gave a pass to the—
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
I just wanted to make sure that we're not slipping on that. We have to remember that we shut down a committee because of that, and we want to make sure that all departments are taking that seriously.
Now on to my questions. In his opening comments and as part of his report, the Auditor General said that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada found that 14 locally engaged staff had viewed their own visa records. These actions obviously violate the department's own code of conduct, and at least one person inappropriately shared other people's visa information.
The comments from the deputy minister indicated that it should maybe go a bit more in depth. I got the sense that the answer—or the solution—is to remind them they're not supposed to do that. I have two little girls at home and I remind them not to do things, but eventually they do things again.
I would like a little clarification as to whether any action is being taken? Is there an investigation into why they by chance viewed these records? Is there any information we should be aware of, or any sort of repercussion that happens when these sorts of things occur?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Ms. Morgan, also on that, could you explain the type of information they would see on their own file that would be wrongfully viewed?
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd be happy to discuss that.
Since the Auditor General's report, we have confirmed that the 14 persons who accessed their own information are locally engaged employees of IRCC. From the information that we have available to date, it appears that these employees accessed their own information and files to check information and status contained in them. There's no indication that they took any action on their own files. The access recorded in GCMS was “read-only”, and did not include “write” activities, which indicate action taken on a file.
Access to information would be subject to the roles assigned to staff in GCMS. That is, staff would only be able to access their own information to the extent that their assigned GCMS role provided it. GCMS roles provide for different levels of access to information held in GCMS.
We are continuing to look into these cases. We are working with Global Affairs Canada because this is a shared responsibility: while these employees report to us, they are employees of Global Affairs Canada. We're working with our program managers and the heads of missions to continue investigating these particular accesses, but at the moment our assessment is that no action has been taken by these employees improperly.
What they would generally see on the file is their own information that they might have submitted, for example, to get a temporary visa to visit Canada. It's the sort of information we request from them—their basic information that's required for a visa.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
I appreciate that.
Now over to you, Mr. Ossowski.
There were shared user log-ins at your agency. Again, I heard that education and reminders are the solution. Is there any investigation ongoing into those cases and whether any inappropriate stuff was done with those shared log-ins?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Do you mean in terms of the sharing of passwords?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Specifically, one of the reasons we found as a result of the audit was that when recruits came out of the college and were assigned to their port of entry, they weren't receiving their passwords to access the system right away.
Part of your education, as you start in the field, is to be with a supervisor, so they would be using the supervisors' passwords. We have rectified that problem. They immediately get their password upon graduation, so we expect this number to diminish dramatically.
Conservative
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank everyone for being here to talk about a subject that's very important to me. Since 1987, I've been dealing with members of Citizenship and Immigration Canada—in all the department's successive versions—on a professional and political level. I want to look at two things, starting with training. All employees should in principle take the values and ethics training. However, according to the Auditor General's report, only 20% of our locally engaged staff have taken the training. This is a problem in itself.
As I told you, I've been working in this field for a very long time, almost 30 years. I want to know why, over all these years, we've never considered following up with users to assess the system?
You said there's no corruption. However, I could tell unbelievable stories—there are so many that it would take forever—of people who witnessed fraud in our foreign embassies. We've never followed up on these stories because, basically, these people are afraid of the consequences of making complaints.
How do you check on the people who use the system? Do you consult them afterward? Do you ask them questions about their experience? Above all, why is the training so limited and the program so rarely implemented? Why have few employees received the training?
My questions are for Ms. Morgan and Ms. Jacovella.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Thank you for the questions.
First, I want to specify—and I'm talking on behalf of my colleagues and our department, because we work very closely together—that the people we hire in the departments are locally engaged. However, they report to an immigration program manager. When they're hired, the new employees are clearly informed that they must comply with the code of values and ethics. We discuss the code with these people and we give them a copy of the code. They know what the Government of Canada expects, and they know the values they must adhere to throughout their government career.
The course is also mandatory. As I said, the course is now part of the conditions of employment. All new job offers mention not only that employees must comply with the code, but that they must also take the mandatory course within three months of their arrival.