Public Accounts Committee on Jan. 26th, 2021

[Roch Huppé]

Maybe I can take a first crack at it. We can certainly provide a more fulsome analysis of that increase, but what I could safely say is that from year to year, obviously, there's an increase in wages. Probably an important piece of that is in relation to that. Essentially, we book what we call an accrual. Say, we have a collective agreement under negotiation, for example. We will also estimate the value of the increases and book it, because in accrual accounting we need to actually book the expenses within the right fiscal year.

I can also tell you that on the 2.4% increase on salaries within what we call the public service—so the core, the traditional departments—there was an increase in the personnel expenses on the military side, the regular force, of 2%, and an increase of 10% as it relates to the Canadian reserve forces.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Okay. Could you send us some more details? I have about a minute left and I do want to move on to the next question.

[Roch Huppé]

Absolutely.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

To Mr. Sabia, benvenuto in your new role. I used to visit your bond managers at the Caisse de dépôt as a bond analyst on the south side. I spent many days in lovely Montreal. I'm very happy to see you in your role and I think your experience is very key at this time.

[Michael Sabia]

Thank you.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I'm going to throw this to you for the last of my time. Please comment on digitization within government and other initiatives that you think can be pursued on a big-picture basis.

[Michael Sabia]

Well, I guess I would make two comments. I agree with what the Auditor General said in terms of the importance of digitizing government services and facilitating access of Canadians to their government on a digital foundation. We have all lived it, and we're living it through the pandemic, so I fully agree with that.

Actually, Mr. Sorbara, I'd like to broaden your question here. One thing that we are thinking hard about and working on is the importance of digitization across the breadth of the Canadian economy.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

On a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Yes, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I want to let you know that the interpretation is not working right now.

[The Clerk]

It has been resolved.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you.

[Michael Sabia]

Mr. Sorbara, to come back to the point I was making, I think we've seen, through this experience we've all been living, that digitization is something that we have to think about on a pan-Canadian basis across every sector, particularly for small and medium-sized businesses, which are really the backbone of the Canadian economy. One thing we are thinking about in the context of finding levers to enhance Canada's growth prospects going forward is actually the very broad application of measures to encourage the expansion and development of digitization across the Canadian economy, and certainly the government is part of that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sabia. I'm sorry; we've gone over time.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair, for your discretion in allowing Mr. Sabia to elaborate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

You're welcome.

We will now move to our third round of questioning. I call this our “rapid-fire round” because it's only two and a half minutes.

We will start with Mr. Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Huppé.

Thank you for being here. This is the first time we've met, if I'm not mistaken. It's a pleasure to see you.

In your opening remarks, you welcomed the results of the Office of the Auditor General's audits as a whole, as well as the collaboration of your colleagues in the Department of Finance. I imagine that this is a matter of the courtesy and team spirit that senior government officials must demonstrate. It is to your credit.

On the other hand, without wanting to diminish your enthusiasm, I can't quite understand how one can be enthusiastic about the ongoing crisis of the Phoenix payroll system. It's a lamentable failure. I don't want to exacerbate the situation, but there's nothing to be happy about in this crisis, which has been going on for years and will not be resolved for many months to come. I don't think it's good news.

As I mentioned earlier, according to current figures, half of the workers who receive basic or acting pay have payroll problems. These are the worst results in the last four years. I've done some checking and it means that close to 150,000 people are affected. I can't see how anyone can be enthusiastic about that.

Could you tell the committee whether the Treasury Board Secretariat is equally enthusiastic and satisfied with the way the Phoenix file has been managed from the beginning?

[Roch Huppé]

Thank you for the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you. You will have one minute to answer.

[Roch Huppé]

All right.

Of course, my enthusiasm is not related to the problems with the Phoenix payroll system. We consider that situation to be serious, unfortunate and distressing. Rather, my enthusiasm stems from my pride in the work done by public servants.

The pandemic began in mid-March, which corresponds to the end of the federal government's fiscal year. It was an extremely critical time for the financial community.

Thanks to the exceptional collaboration of the various partners, including the Auditor General, the audit of the financial statements was successfully completed.

When producing financial statements, an accurate picture of an organization's financial position must be presented. I'm enthusiastic because, once again this year, the Office of the Auditor General has issued an unqualified audit opinion. So people can rely on these documents.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much.

We will now move to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In volume III of the public accounts, “Additional information and analyses”, there's a settlement claim for a missed financial opportunity of $5 million awarded to Thales Canada Incorporated. It's an aerospace, defence and security company. This question is for the Department of Finance.

What are the settlement claims for the missed financial opportunities? It seems like a pretty random $5-million payment. What are the circumstances around this specific payment?

[Michael Sabia]

Mr. Green, if you agree, I'm going to ask my colleague Nick Leswick whether he has an answer to that, or whether that's one of the ones we should take away and come back to you on.

[Nicholas Leswick]

Thank you, Deputy.

Unless Darlene or Roch has an answer, I think that's one we can take away.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay. I will move it along, and I will continue the question around the procurement with the Newfoundland government. My question follows on Mr. Lawrence's comments.

During that $135-million payment to the province.... We heard the Department of Finance's answer. I would like to get the answer now from the Treasury Board. Did the Treasury Board president also approve of making these payments without seeking parliamentary approval, and did it require the Treasury Board's final approval?