Evidence of meeting #20 for Public Accounts in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was public.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
That doesn't surprise me just because of the process that you do, so fantastic.
Mr. Lawrence, thank you. Please, I'll give some time back to you.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Do you know the approximate time, Madam Chair?
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Just following up, in the 2013 to 2016 time frame, there were 56 complaints, 40 of them with one advertisement, so it seemed like there were only 15 complaints. We subsequently changed only three out of 1,800.
The math tells me quite frankly that either this government is absolutely spectacular and the one preceding it, quite frankly, was spectacular in avoiding non-partisanship or there's an issue here. Clearly, with three out of 1,800, the Harper government must have been the most non-partisan in history followed and duplicated only by the Trudeau government. Please tell me that I'm missing something here.
12:05 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
The policy was established in 2016.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Okay, so it's only the Trudeau government that is the most non-partisan in history.
12:05 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No. That's clearly not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that factually, in terms of the comparability of the periods, the policy under review by the Auditor General with the excellent recommendations that we have implemented and continue to maintain a close eye on is a 2016 policy.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
My apologies.
The fact remains that three out of 1,800.... We have maybe 15 complaints. We have very few changes. The math just does not add up.
The Auditor General said you're effectively not doing your job. The only change I can see that is substantive is lowering the threshold from $500,000 to $250,000 for the robust review.
There's a problem here. Can you guys recognize that?
12:05 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
To be very clear, the Auditor General, who can confirm this, pointed out there were significant gaps in the process. We agree with that and we have addressed those gaps in the process. We'll continue to do that. The actual determination of partisanship in advertising was not part of the Auditor General's findings or review.
As you have indicated, and I share your view, the actual determination of that will be subject to a wide range of opinions. Frankly, we are not in disagreement on this subject.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I would also like to thank the witnesses appearing before us today.
I had a series of questions, but I am really intrigued by those that some of my colleagues have asked.
It's important that the debate be refocused on the issue of Ad Standards, which has been determining standards for advertising in Canada for several decades.
Ms. Acton of the Treasury Board recognized that Ad Standards has been around for a long time. It is a non-partisan, non-profit organization. It determines and administers the process for compliance in online behavioural advertising. It does the same for television and newspaper advertising standards.
My question is for a representative of the Office of the Auditor General.
Mr. Hayes, do you consider Ad Standards to be a legitimate and recognized body that is able to evaluate whether or not our advertisements meet non-partisanship requirements?
12:10 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
Thank you for your question.
I would say yes. We consider the organization to be independent and therefore able to review advertising campaigns objectively.
However, our report raises issues within the organization, including its involvement in the complaints process. We did not conduct an audit in that area, but the complaints process has changed. It has therefore likely been improved.
When I look at the situation, I feel that this group does its reviews objectively.
12:10 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
I feel that the organization has established its credibility, but Ms. Salvail could complete my answer.
12:10 p.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
It's not really a credibility issue. Based on our audits, there was little or no documentation to support the work that Ad Standards was doing. It was difficult for us, but it was also difficult for the Treasury Board, which is in contact with Ad Standards, to see if the organization is really doing a good job.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
I understand that you are not questioning the work of Ad Standards. You are simply saying that we should have a better record of its decisions.
12:15 p.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Without documentation, it's hard for us to see if it is doing a good job.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
You are not questioning its work. No other organization in Canada is as credible in this field. You believe Ad Standards should be used. You are only saying that you have no documentation, but that you would need documentation to assess its work.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
