Public Accounts Committee on April 20th, 2021

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much.

We will now move to our last round of questioning, starting with Mr. Paul-Hus for five minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to continue asking Mr. Stewart about passenger arrivals at airports.

Last week, we asked questions in the House of Commons about flights from Brazil. We had learned that specific tests had been cancelled, even though the Brazilian variant was known to be very virulent.

Can you tell me, as president of the Public Health Agency of Canada, why tests are being cancelled when we know that this virus is incredibly dangerous?

[Iain Stewart]

Madam Chair and honourable member, as I was outlining earlier, we set out a perimeter that now involves three tests: one before arrival, one on arrival and one 10 days into quarantine, along with the government approved accommodations for the first test done here in Canada, and genetic sequencing, etc. That perimeter is extensive and applies to every non-exempt traveller arriving in Canada, and that applies whether you're coming from Brazil or coming from, well, pick your country of choice. It's extremely comprehensive.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Are we testing more specifically for people coming from Brazil, given the Brazilian variant, or do the same tests apply to everyone?

There is the South African variant, the British variant, and now the Brazilian variant. We know that there were specific tests, but that they have been discontinued. Is that the case, yes or no?

[Iain Stewart]

Madam Chair, no tests have been stopped. We're doing three tests for every non-exempt traveller who gets off an airplane, and they're genetically sequenced.

It's important to note that it's the same testing technology identifying the original virus or the variant. It works for them, and what we genetically sequence for is to identify which variant it is.

There has been no reduction in testing at all. It applies to everybody arriving who's a non-exempt traveller. It's consistent and therefore includes Brazil.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I asked earlier about travellers who did not quarantine or refused to quarantine. Figures tell us that 964 tickets were issued. Would you confirm that that is the correct number?

That means that out of thousands, 964 people were intercepted. You talk a lot about volume. You're saying that a lot of people are still coming into Canada, even though the border is supposed to be closed. We're talking about thousands of people. Is the information accurate on that?

So we're talking about 964 people who did not comply with the guidelines, and that's already 964 too many.

[Iain Stewart]

Madam Chair, I don't know what the right number of the tickets would be. We have issued 942 tickets under the Quarantine Act, and then we have 22 additional tickets that were issued under municipal orders, and the total is 964. Those are the facts, sir.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Hogan, on page 39 of your report, there is a nice chart that shows the checks you did on people who were required to self-isolate. It shows that 46% of them did not comply with the quarantine order. In that regard, I would like to know if you did the checks for people who were coming into Quebec.

A few weeks ago, the Quebec Department of Public Safety said it did not have information about passengers arriving in Montreal, particularly from Toronto, because there was no exchange of information between the Quebec and Canadian departments of public safety to allow for follow-up. In Quebec, the RCMP is not involved in any of this.

If I understood correctly, no one could do checks on all passengers arriving in Quebec.

[Karen Hogan]

The chart indicates that the Public Health Agency of Canada reported 40% of cases where individuals were at high risk of not following quarantine rules to law enforcement. I can't confirm whether we have done these audits for each province. Regardless, we found that only 40% of these cases were reported to law enforcement for follow-up.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

When passengers arrived in Quebec, police forces did not conduct checks. So no one could be monitored in any way. Is that correct?

[Karen Hogan]

I'll respond quickly, as the allotted time is up, I believe.

I see that it is the agents at the border who determine whether someone can enter the country. The case is then referred to the Public Health Agency of Canada if self-isolation is required.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I'm talking about the follow-up that consists in doing field checks, but there was no one on the ground. That's what I'm saying, basically.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Paul-Hus.

Our last questioner will be Mr. Fergus for five minutes.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses who appeared today.

I will put the same question to the representatives of the two agencies, as well as to Madam Auditor General, beginning with Mr. Ossowski.

Today is April 20, 2021. It has been nearly 14 months since the start of the pandemic. You have read the Auditor General's report and agree with all of her recommendations.

If you implement all of these recommendations, are you confident that the country will be ready for a future pandemic?

[John Ossowski]

I'm pleased to report that we had implemented almost all of the recommendations in the measures we had put in place. The one outstanding is an additional training tool for officers. Those would be the people in our training college, the new recruits, just to familiarize them with the order-in-council regime. In terms of the feedback loop to provide more clarity and to make adjustments regularly, we have a very robust action plan that has almost been completed.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ossowski.

I now go to Mr. Stewart.

Is the Public Health Agency of Canada prepared for the next pandemic?

[Iain Stewart]

The agency is equipped and able to respond to the needs of the current pandemic. The next pandemic may take a different form, to be honest, and that's part of the planning and discussion we need to do as per the Auditor General's report.

I'll give you an example. We've been talking about quarantine. The Auditor General in her report pointed out that there was insufficient follow-up to make sure people were in quarantine. Since the time the Auditor General looked at it, which ended in June, we have hired four national security companies who now do that function with the Sûreté du Québec and the RCMP, or the local public health authorities.

Just for the record, we have done 179,953 door knocks following up on people in quarantine to make sure they are where they are supposed to be, so part of the problem with the Auditor General's report is that it was looking at a period where we were launching, building, and so on.

Madam Chair, we have built capacities that are enabling us to do the things we are trying to do now.

To the Auditor General's report, we have to continue to improve our planning ability with respect to your question about whether we are ready for the next one.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Ms. Hogan, I'm giving you the opportunity to supplement the response of the other witnesses and explain the role you play in providing the Canadian public with the latest conclusive data.

Are you confident that both agencies are on track to respond appropriately to a future crisis?

[Karen Hogan]

No audit can provide you with absolute assurance.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I don't necessarily want you to give me absolute assurance, just your opinion.

[Karen Hogan]

I am confident in the goodwill of the agencies and the desire of federal officials to answer the call to support Canadians. If the agencies act on our recommendations, we will be well prepared to respond. But preparedness requires flexibility because, as one of the witnesses mentioned, the next pandemic will be different from the one we are experiencing now. So we need to be prepared to go out and get resources and have plans that set out roles and responsibilities very clearly, so that the response will be faster and more coordinated the next time.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I believe my time is almost up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fergus.

You are correct. Those were great questions to end our time on.

Witnesses, I'd like to thank you for joining us, and I invite you to take your leave at this time.

Thank you very much, colleagues. It looks like our witnesses have all left. I wanted to take a couple of minutes to discuss some future business so that we can provide direction to our clerk and the analysts for scheduling our meetings in May.

All of you should have received the list of the remaining reports from the Auditor General that we may study, as well as a proposed calendar. I guess what I would do now is just ask if anyone has any questions or comments about the proposed calendar that you have before you. I know that we've had—

Go ahead, Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Yes, we sure have a lot of studies, and I'm wondering about the time to review the reports that we're sending back. We're really front-loading our schedule here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

That's a very good question. I will ask Dillan to respond, perhaps, because we did have this very conversation.