Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 20th, 2024

[Karen Hogan]

That's a question you'll have to ask the agencies and the department.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Ms. Jeffrey, as we just heard, not only did you not do what an SME is capable of doing, that is to say a budget and follow‑up, but you also didn't follow the directives of the Treasury Board Secretariat.

Was it pure negligence or a firm desire to turn a blind eye?

[Heather Jeffrey]

The pressure to move quickly in the face of a global pandemic with multiple lines of operation across borders, vaccine procurement, therapeutics and all of the other aspects of a public health response meant that insufficient attention was paid to the governance structure of this project, which we regret and which we have undertaken to rectify in the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You still have 30 seconds.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, but I think I've heard enough.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

It's over to you, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to now turn again to the last question I left off on, which was in relation to the non-competitive and the competitive process that was undertaken by the Public Health Agency of Canada in regard to GC Strategies and KPMG.

To the president of the Public Health Agency of Canada, you mentioned that KPMG was selected amongst a list of vendors that was known to the agency. As to the qualification reasons given in answering my question as to why that agency was selected, you responded that it was because of a list of known contractors.

Can you supply that list of known contractors and when those known contractors were added to that list, in addition to how long that list has been operating?

[Heather Jeffrey]

This was a global professional services procurement vehicle established by PSPC. They established the contracts with each of the seven vendors.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Could you provide that to this committee, please?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Yes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much.

In addition to that, can you add the date on which those companies were added to that list?

[Heather Jeffrey]

This is probably a question that I would suggest you ask our PSPC officials, who I believe are appearing tomorrow in front of this committee. The Public Health Agency of Canada was not involved in establishing the list.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you for that.

I appreciate the recommendation; however, it doesn't devoid your department of accountability when it was your department that was the business owner of this project. You should have asked the public service agency of Canada those questions before operating those contracts.

My final question is in relation to moving forward in terms of the Public Health Agency of Canada's operational work in regard to how it will manage future contracts. I think it's unfortunate that the Auditor General had to recommend such basic levels of qualification for good governance. I would say those basic levels of qualification are important.

Now that you've committed to the findings of the Auditor General, would you also submit to following up with us in one year's time on how you've implemented these recommendations of the Auditor General?

[Heather Jeffrey]

We have regular reporting requirements, and we will be reporting back on the management response to the Auditor General's report.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I'll give you the 10 seconds remaining for any final comments you may have for this committee.

[Heather Jeffrey]

My final comment is that I would welcome the findings of the Auditor General's report. While it was an unprecedented emergency response to a global pandemic that had not been faced before by the agency and there were severe operational requirements for urgent response, nonetheless, there is a requirement to document and to have in place governance.

We have taken that lesson, and while I'm very proud of the response of the agency in terms of the services delivered to Canadians and in terms of protecting health and safety through the delivery of border services, vaccines, therapeutics and other critical public health elements of the response, we can and will do better in terms of the governance put in place around these projects in the future going forward.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you, witnesses.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you all very much.

Mr. Brock, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The arrive scam boondoggle has to have consequences. It's little comfort to the Canadians who are watching this that you're going to do better the next time, or that this pandemic was a once-in-a-lifetime issue. You had all the structures in place and you failed to follow through. Your agency, the CBSA, PSPC...consequences.

Apart from Cameron MacDonald and Antonio Utano, have you suspended, with or without pay, any of your employees involved in this scandal—yes or no?

[Heather Jeffrey]

No, there have been no findings of wrongdoing in our investigations into Public Health Agency of Canada employees, and no employees have been suspended.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You can only imagine the Canadian taxpayers who right now are going through organizing their taxes, Canadian businesses—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'm just trying to figure out how long we are going on with this meeting. I do have other obligations in the next 10 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

We have Mr. Brock and then Ms. Bradford, and then we'll end it for the day.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Okay.

Thank you so very much. I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Brock, you have four minutes left.