Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 20th, 2024

[Heather Jeffrey]

No, I did not.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Was there a particular reason that you didn't?

[Heather Jeffrey]

It was because the public servants who are responsible for the administration of this project and the rollout of the app continue to have functions in the department—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Ultimately, you as the deputy minister and president are now responsible for the entire department. Is that right?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Yes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You're in a position to answer any and all questions.

[Heather Jeffrey]

Yes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Going back to my earlier round about communications and the frequency, it sounds like the minister, Minister Hajdu in particular, and the PCO, which ultimately reports to the Prime Minister, were in regular contact with your predecessor and other officials within your department.

I would like you to produce for us on this committee—I'll ask for it to be within perhaps 15 days, or longer if the chair deems it appropriate—a calendar or some type of scheduling that would have existed at the time your predecessor was communicating to both Minister Hajdu and the PCO. I want to know the frequency. You've indicated that it was fairly frequent. It could have been phone calls. It could have been emails. It could have been actual meetings.

I'd like you to produce a schedule of all those events. Will you do that?

[Heather Jeffrey]

There was formal governance around the policy of the border measures. Certainly we can document that, but the decisions around the contracting and the governance of the app rested with the public service—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm talking about your communications. You must have some type of system that documents when you're going to have a meeting with a minister. That's a pretty important event. You certainly don't just decide on a whim, “I'm going to have a conversation”, and then you don't document it.

I'm asking for documentation to show the frequency of those meetings with Minister Hajdu and the PCO. Will you provide that?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Is there a particular time period that...?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm suggesting 15 days.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I think Ms. Jeffrey means the time period in terms of the—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It would be during the entire implementation of ArriveCAN.

[Heather Jeffrey]

There was a formal governance structure around COVID-19. Is it the specific governance structure around the app itself or...?

I'm sorry. I'm just trying to seek clarification about what aspects of the COVID governance structure are being requested.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'll make it very clear. Any and all communications, whether they be telephone, whether they be email or whether they be in person, surely must have been recorded and documented. I'm asking for proof of that documentation during the entire course of the ArriveCAN implementation. This was the most pressing issue in your department and to Canadians from coast to coast.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Just hold on, Mr. Brock. We might have a point of order.

Do you have a point of order, Ms. Yip?

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

On a point of order, this is a really large production request.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm with you. I'm going to let Mr. Brock finish, and then I'm going to interject. I have the same concern you have.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

This is too much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Brock, you have about 15 seconds left. I'm going to try to help you get through this. Why don't you finish up and then we'll seek to resolve this?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That's what I'm asking for.

What type of documentation would have existed to record communications between you or your predecessor and Minister Hajdu and the PCO?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Yip, if I missed where you are, you can jump in on a point of order.

To Ms. Yip's point on communications, you want to know when meetings took place between.... Yes. Okay, so let's focus on that. It sounded like you wanted to go down the same path that Ms. Hogan went down by looking through communications, which is very broad.

You're talking about meetings and who attended them within the departments that are involved. You mentioned the CBSA, PHAC and the PCO.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay.

Is that something you'd be able to provide to the committee? It's the frequency of those meetings and when they occurred.