Public Accounts Committee on April 11th, 2024

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I raise a point of order on relevance. Ms. Shanahan asked the question of the Auditor General. The Auditor General responded.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I believe that exhausting our remaining amount of time before we get to a vote is inappropriate. We should get to a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Desjarlais, an observation is not a point of order, and Mrs. Shanahan has the floor. I can appreciate your frustration, because the clock is ticking. I'm going to go back to Mrs. Shanahan.

As you know, I cannot cut off debate. Debate goes until it collapses, and then I call the vote.

Mrs. Shanahan, you have the floor.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Mr. Chair, again, in the spirit of working together, we've had other motions of this type that have come forward because of the urgency of the moment, but the different parties were consulted beforehand so we could at least have an idea of where we were headed.

It's just in that spirit, Mr. Chair, that I would like to put it to my colleagues that this committee has already had its time taken up considerably by the work of another committee, initially the government operations committee. We have, in my opinion, actually duplicated a lot of work that has happened. Also, it's not necessarily the case that Auditor General reports are only studied in our committee. In fact, we're a starting point, and then they go to other committees where they can be discussed more extensively.

With that, Mr. Chair, I would propose a friendly amendment concerning the timeline. It is that we do the invitation to the minister sometime in May, given the timeline we have before us. Our meetings are scheduled for the next couple of weeks.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to come back to you in 10 seconds just to be more clear, Mrs. Shanahan, because I'm not quite sure what your amendment is.

In the meantime, I'd like to excuse the witnesses.

Thank you very much for appearing today. We all appreciate it. You are free to go.

This committee will continue to address this question for another 10 minutes.

Mrs. Shanahan, I'm going to turn the floor back to you, because you were proposing an amendment. We're looking for some clarity on that, Mrs. Shanahan, but of course the floor is yours.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I have the text before me.

The amendment is in the last line. It is to replace “within three weeks of this motion” with “to appear May 31”.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You mean “by May 31”.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Yes, it's “by May 31”.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. There's an amendment on the table to modify the motion so that it reads “by May 31”.

Mr. Desjarlais, you had your hand up previously, but it's your motion, so I'll hear from you, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'm incredibly frustrated with the attempts by the government to delay and to go so far as to ensure that indigenous people continue to wait. It's been over 20 years. It's unbelievable that we are even debating an amendment about extending time for the government when there have been over 20 years of problems.

Forgive me for the amount of frustration this is giving me, but I need you to sympathize and understand that as we debate this—making sure the minister has an opportunity to review all the information and to have a big long dialogue about how she can skirt her responsibilities—I believe that indigenous people should get the level of understanding, transparency and accountability that's needed from this government, and the only way to do it is by ensuring we actually hear from the minister. The questions we posed today were departmental questions—and yes, they're important questions—but the Auditor General has been very clear that this is of utmost importance.

Twenty years is the problem in our country. This is the greatest issue facing Canadians, in many ways. If we can't actually ensure we have fairness, equality and equity, what do we stand for? What do we actually stand for as a country if we can't ensure that a kid doesn't spend his whole life in a house full of mould?

I don't think you understand the gravity of this emergency. I'll share with you the story of a boy I grew up with, who committed suicide in his mouldy house across the way. He was my neighbour. They believed there was never going to be a chance for him to grow up. We have no time to wait for this.

To the Liberal whip's office, you need to understand that this is an emergency. Your amendments, your procedural tactics to delay and your filibustering are not appreciated. This is a serious issue that I believe we can actually be non-partisan on if only the government were to see this as an important issue to follow up on that requires all of our attention.

I need that from the governing members here, who are members of the public accounts committee and who've been told by the Auditor General that this is an emergency but are requesting more time. Simply, Mr. Chair, I cannot allow for that kind of excuse.

The minister owes a responsibility to indigenous people. She is the minister of the Crown responsible for this immense emergency, and the government and the Liberal Party need to understand that three weeks is already generous when we have people who are waiting in mouldy homes. I'm not okay with sleeping every night knowing that other people in our country are either sleeping in mouldy homes, sleeping on the street or dying. The minister and the government had 20 years. We have no more time to wait.

Mr. Chair, I do not entertain the amendment for those reasons, and I hope our colleagues can understand the urgency of this and why the minister must be present.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Desjarlais.

Clerk, please call the roll call on the amendment to the motion.

The vote is five-five. I will vote no as well.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're returning to the motion at hand as tabled by Mr. Desjarlais.

I see no speakers. Please call the vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

As you know, as a committee we cannot order or compel the minister to attend. I will do my utmost to see that the minister receives our unanimous agreement that she appear here within three weeks. I will press, Mr. Desjarlais, the importance of this matter. I will do so firmly.

As chair, if we agree on a date outside of that and I am instructed that this is the only time, I will accept that. I will say this: If this falls on a recess, this is on you this time, not me.

With that, I will remind subcommittee members that tomorrow's meeting is cancelled.

We will be turning to “Report 4: National Trade Corridors Fund—Transport Canada” on Tuesday.

This meeting is adjourned.