Evidence of meeting #134 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
The request came down from the senior management team at CBSA. That is what I know.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
When you say senior management, who are you talking about specifically?
As an Individual
It was communicated to me through my executive director that he was being instructed to go with GC Strategies. We didn't know who GC Strategies were.
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
You're saying that Mr. MacDonald was told by someone else to award the contract to GC Strategies and that he was the one who asked you to do so.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Do you think someone else ordered Mr. MacDonald to do so?
As an Individual
That's what I was informed of. I wasn't in the C-suite, so I don't know who would have instructed him. I was just a PG-05, a mid-level, low-level employee doing what I was told to do.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Okay.
However, Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano, as well as your colleague Mr. Ailapperuma, received invitations. They were familiar with GC Strategies. They would have had personal reasons for wanting to award a contract to GC Strategies. They participated in whisky tastings and golf tournaments, and they received gifts from GC Strategies. They may have wanted to award that company the contract.
Why do you think someone else instructed them and it wasn't their own decision to award the contract to GC Strategies?
As an Individual
I have a copy of what I found on the Internet, which was an ATIP on Reddit. It's a 2022 ATIP. It clearly identifies that the decision for GC Strategies, which was made at the highest level—and I'm happy to provide that to the committee—was made through one of the offices of the acting CFO, who said it came out of her office. I'm not sure where this was generated or how GC Strategies, which is a two-person company, was involved.
Again, I'm just a low-level employee doing her job.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
When you were writing your emails where you strongly insisted, by raising arguments, that the contract should be awarded to GC Strategies, did you ever say to yourself that you were doing something that was not right? Did you sound the alarm at that time?
As an Individual
I was aware of who GC Strategies was. I never met Kristian Firth personally. It was COVID. I have a vulnerable woman who lives with me. I didn't work outside of the home most of the time. I remained virtual pretty much during COVID because I have people who depend on me, including a brother who is in the system in Ontario, a developmentally disabled autistic brother. My ability to meet anyone or even meet suppliers was done online.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
I'm sorry, but the question must have been misunderstood. I was simply asking you whether, when you wrote those emails, dated March 30, 2020, in which you insisted that the contract be awarded to GC Strategies, you said to yourself that you were responding to orders that seemed wrong to you and whether you sounded the alarm at that time.
As an Individual
Well, I was informed in writing by Angela Durigan that GC Strategies had to be a pre-qualified supplier on the TBIPS catalogue. That TBIPS catalogue is not determined by me, nor do I have access to it...including the fact that it's a two-person company. Any and all decisions were not mine to make. I had no access or no right to make decisions.
Senior management at CBSA has a contract review board. They have a series of executives at CBSA and at that time, they would have instructed.... As you know, as Lysane said in her audio, it comes down to you are a soldier and you are to do as you're told. I'm a unionized member. For doing my job...and if I'd seen anything, I would have reported it.
I didn't know who this pre-qualified supplier was. I want to make that very, very clear. I didn't decide. Angela Durigan confirmed that they are a TBIPS supplier. I have it in writing with me and can prove that Angela Durigan said “I'm getting ready to send the draft contract to GC Strategies” in the time frame you're mentioning, Madam.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Up next is Mr. Desjarlais.
You have the floor for six minutes, please.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much, Ms. Daly, for being present for these questions today.
What were your roles and responsibilities during your tenure at the CBSA?
As an Individual
I was a senior adviser in the IT group. My role was administrative. I was a facilitator back and forth between multiple stakeholders to get answers, to have people fill things out and to put together packages for procurement requests, privacy impact assessments or anything the DGO needed help with. I worked with other people who worked in the DGO, including their own finance person. The finance manager made sure the coding was fine. We would send that off to the CBSA procurement inbox. We treated it just like we would anything else.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Have you ever communicated with any contractor using your or their personal emails or phone numbers?
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
We have evidence submitted to this committee that references an email, that on November 11 you sent an email to a Coradix representative's personal email address. Do you recall the November 11 email?
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
It stands to reason—we have a copy of the email—that you did in fact communicate with a contractor using your or their personal email addresses, however. Would you agree?
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
You were the former procurement manager for the CBSA where misconduct allegations from Botler AI were brought to you. Is that correct?
As an Individual
I was never a procurement manager of anything. I was not a procurement manager at CBSA, and I have proof of that.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Okay. You said, however, that your only role then, besides not being a manager, was to pay Botler. Is that correct?