Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2024

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm always here to work with others as well. I'm just wondering if we can park this and wait until we get the information. If it's not satisfactory to Mr. Perkins, then Mr. Perkins could reintroduce his motion and we can move forward on the adoption of that particular motion, but if the documents are to be submitted to this committee by three weeks, we're getting close to the end time, so I'm assuming that documents will be showing up at this committee fairly shortly.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Next is Madame Sinclair-Desgagné.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

We, on this side, support the motion as well. The contradictions we see between the various testimonies seem very problematic to us. In fact, the contradiction noted in the motion we are debating today is one of them. There have been others, such as who manages Sustainable Development Technology Canada, or SDTC. On the one hand, the deputy minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada said that it was the National Research Council of Canada, or NRC, while on the other hand, the director of the NRC said that it was not the council that manages SDTC. Once again, there are tons of contradictions in the testimony, which does not allow parliamentarians to do their work effectively.

We therefore support this motion and hope to move to a vote very soon.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Madam Clerk, call the question, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair. I had my hand up.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm afraid the question has been called, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, I had my hand up before you called for that. I find that to be a little bit unfair, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I did not see your hand up, Ms. Khalid. I waited.... The question has been called.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. We're talking about five seconds. She said she wanted to speak.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Drouin—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I've been on other committees with an opposition chair. I've sat on government operations for six years. There's always this collegiality back and forth, of course.

Ms. Khalid said she wanted to have the floor, but you gave her no time. I'm just wondering, how are we running the show here?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Drouin, I appreciate your enthusiasm.

I scan the room as members are talking.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I swear to you that I had my hand up while Mr. Drouin was speaking.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Khalid, you know my practice.

I was even deliberately slow between the end of Madame Sinclair-Desgagné's comment and before calling the—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Five seconds, that's—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I thought you recognized me and put me on the list, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

The question has been called.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

No, Chair. I will challenge you on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Khalid, it is your option to challenge me on that.

The chair has been challenged.

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 5; nays 5)

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

We'll call the question on the motion as tabled by Mr. Perkins.

We have a tie. I vote yea.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

The motion has passed.

I'm now going to go back to the witnesses.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to turn back to the Ethics Commissioner's “Ouimet Report”.

In July 2024, the Ethics Commissioner dismissed allegations that you had contravened the Conflict of Interest Act, given the board's decision to approve COVID-19 payments to companies, including Lithion Recycling Inc., which you held shares in. What percentage stake did you hold in Lithion?

[Guy Ouimet]

It was 1%.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thanks.

The commissioner's decision states that your interest in Lithion was insignificant and that it did not pose a risk of conflict of interest. Can you explain the commissioner's decision as you understand it?

[Guy Ouimet]

The commissioner applied the de minimis non curat praetor principle. In fact, my involvement in the company was so minimal that he felt it could not influence my decisions.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Can you explain to this committee how the board approved the one-off COVID-19 payments to the companies in the portfolio in the last month of the fiscal year 2020-21?