It's a lot of work.
Evidence of meeting #142 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #142 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
It's a lot of work.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
It sounded like a lot of work when I read the AG's recommendations.
One of the challenges here is that there was a conflict of interest mess in terms of the procedures being followed, but a lot of that seemed to hinge, based on what I've been able to glean from the evidence and the record, upon a particular lawyer's involvement and advice.
I just want to be clear: Is the lawyer who was offering that advice at the time still involved in any way with the organization?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
No, he's not in any way involved anymore.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Is anyone involved?
Of the concerns that have been raised, the biggest, from what I've been able to see—I know there's a lot of grandstanding and political theatre to this—is that there was a bundled approval of COVID-related payments and emergency payments to a series of companies that had been previously approved for funding. There was a bundled approval. Again, the lawyer suggested that a recusal was not necessary. I think that was “incorrect...advice”, in the language of the Ethics Commissioner.
Is anyone who was involved in that approval process at the time still involved with the board?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
My understanding is that the main person involved in that was the CEO, and as you know, she is gone. The lawyer is no longer providing advice at all to—
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Anyone who is subject to any concerning conflict or any allegation of conflict is no longer involved.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Yes, that's my understanding.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Okay.
I'll move on to this business with the RCMP. My understanding is that there's a privilege question in the House right now, and the idea is that Parliament has demanded documents in order to turn them over to the RCMP.
Honestly, I read the Ethics Commissioner's report from July, and the Ethics Commissioner found two violations of the act. The largest violation in one case was an abstention instead of a recusal. That's certainly not criminal. It's a violation of the ethics rules in the commissioner's view, and rightly so, but it's not anywhere close to a criminal offence standard of behaviour.
Another finding was in relation to this bundled approval. In the language of the Ethics Commissioner, while the original payments to NRStor were approved on occasions before Annette Verschuren was the chairperson of SDTC, following incorrect advice, she did not recuse herself. Again, that is nowhere near criminal behaviour. I'm a bit confused.
Has there been any communication between the RCMP and the board to suggest it's taking any investigation seriously?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
No, there has not been. We have had no communication, and the RCMP has not been in touch with us at all.
I understand there was a letter that the AG prepared on July 10 this year to the Clerk of the House of Commons, which indicated that in situations where her office is of the view that activities may be of a criminal nature, they promptly inform the RCMP. She did not do that in the case of this audit.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Of course not, because no one of sound mind reading the evidentiary record would think for an instant that this is a criminal matter, unless they were a Conservative.
Thanks. That's my time.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
You still have another couple of seconds, if you like. Are you good?
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Honestly, Chair, this seems like an endless series of meetings for something we know about. We know what happened. We know now that the board has concluded 10 of 12 recommendations, and it's working on the rest of them. This thing's being transitioned to the NRC, and no one who is subject to any of the problems is still involved.
I guess we can have another dozen meetings, but I don't know what we're doing here.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thanks so much.
The next person to have the floor is Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Ms. Doyle, you said you would take it under advisement when asked to obtain information on the consulting firms that were selected. What does that mean?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I'm sorry. Could you repeat that question? I didn't get it.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
I asked you a question about the consulting firms that were retained. You also told my colleague that they were selected to review projects on the Auditor General's recommendation at the end of July.
I asked you to provide us with the timeline provided in the response to the RFP.
You said you would take my request under advisement.
What does that mean?
Will you provide us with those documents or not?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Yes, we'd be happy to provide you with the information around the specifics of the RFP. The date that it was issued, when it closed—
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
That's not what I asked, Ms. Doyle. What I requested was the response from the consulting firms.
In any response from consultants and in any response to an RFP, a timeline is provided. It specifies the number of companies to be assessed, then it provides a timeline for the time required to conduct those assessments. It's all very clear.
Frankly, I don't understand why you're unable to answer my question. If consultants commit to conducting a review within so many months, they normally do so.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Yes, and we'd be happy to provide you with that timeline.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
I finally got the answer to my previous question. I can now ask further ones.
Did you hear the testimony of the person identified as Witness 1?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I'm sorry. Who is Witness 1?
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Witness 1 is the whistle-blower who triggered this whole affair.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I had some summary of that witness's testimony before your committee, yes.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I was not appointed to reflect on or to second-guess what happened in the past. We have a very distinct mandate, so I don't have any comment on what a whistle-blower said about something that happened many months ago at SDTC.