Evidence of meeting #143 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I have a point of order, actually.
When you say, “answer the question”, you're not addressing that through the chair. I think that's what my colleague, Ms. Khalid, is trying to say.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I see. All right.
Mr. Cooper, if you could send your questions through the chair, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
Conservative
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Mr. Chair, the NRC is an independent organization, and I am sure they will be very transparent, but I can't answer the specific question about whether they will follow exactly the same transparency procedures as SDTC.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Ms. Morgan, it's astounding that you can't ensure that there would be at least an equivalent level of transparency. That there, in fact, might be less transparency, not more transparency, would completely undermine one of the purported objectives of moving SDTC over to the NRC.
I think that what is going on, Mr. Chair, is that the minister is working to ensure that there will not be public scrutiny and parliamentary scrutiny in the future of the kind of corruption that has been identified in SDTC. It's about burying the corruption going forward.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you, Mr. Cooper.
Ms. Khalid, the floor is yours for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Morgan, for being here today. We really appreciate your testimony.
I know that you have been asked a couple of questions about what the prior case has been, what the current case is and what the future is going to be. Can you please help us walk through the entirety of your involvement with what has happened prior, what is currently ongoing with you and what the future holds with respect to this issue?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
The board of SDTC is really focused on moving forward on the mandate that Minister Champagne has provided us.
If we look at the three elements of that mandate, we see that the first one is implementing the Auditor General's report. We have implemented 10 of the 11 recommendations of the Auditor General, as outlined, and there is one more under way, the individual review of each project for eligibility, which we've been discussing today.
The second element that the board has been working on is restarting funding for clean-tech companies. We've engaged in a third party review. Once these reviews have been completed, we are hoping to be able to restart funding, particularly for those companies that have met their project milestones and been waiting for funding because funding has been paused, as well as for those projects where there were no eligibility issues identified.
The third piece is transitioning programming and staff to the NRC. This is really about people. There's so much talent at SDTC and people who are so committed to the future of the sustainable development technology sector in Canada, working with SDTC to ensure a smooth transition of people and programs to the NRC. That will be our focus going forward. Thus far, we've established solid working relationships and good working groups between the two organizations to organize that.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you very much for that.
I know it sometimes feels like a kangaroo court in here, where a lot of companies get put through the ringer. This whole matter.... As disappointed as I am at how this corruption has really implicated and impacted a lot of our green tech, our clean-tech sector, can you please help us understand what that transition has looked like, especially with the freezing of funds of companies? How has that impacted the industry? In your current role, what do you see?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
There's no question that we have heard that some companies are having difficulty because funding for their projects has been paused. There's a lot of interest from companies in knowing when funding can be restarted to enable them to continue and to remain financially viable during this period.
SDTC funds sustainable development projects in agriculture, manufacturing, energy and forestry. It's quite a broad scope of projects that are funded by SDTC and a lot of very interesting companies that have a lot of potential, so we are looking forward to being able to move forward on that part of the mandate.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
When will funding resume for a lot of these companies? I know there was a freeze put on—rightly so—because we want to make sure that when funding resumes, it is transparent and Canadians are able to understand how Canadian dollars are being spent. How is that going to resume?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We have the processes in place now, a renewed contribution agreement with ISED and the project review process restarted. We're hopeful that soon we'll be able to provide funding to those projects where the Auditor General did not identify eligibility concerns, and then to projects where project milestones have been met and the funding has been paused.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Could you perhaps talk a little about the renewed contribution agreement, how that is impacting the industries and how that is going to be implemented, especially with respect to conflict of interest?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
A number of recommendations of the Auditor General are reflected in the renewed contribution agreement and in fact required changes to the contribution agreement. They included enhancing oversight, including conflict of interest reporting and disclosure, quarterly reporting that demonstrates compliance within the terms and conditions of the contribution agreement, clarity on the role of ISED vis-à-vis SDTC, enhanced oversight and auditing, and also clarification of eligibility requirements. It was noted in the Auditor General's report that in some cases there was a lack of clarity around eligibility, including, for example, the technology readiness levels.
All of the changes that came out of that report have been incorporated now and will be taken into account going forward.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you. That is the time.
We're beginning our fourth round.
Mr. Brock, you have the floor for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I want to build again on some of your responses to previous members' questions.
I want to focus in on the corruption associated with the green slush fund. It was surprising.... Actually, it was refreshing; I should use the appropriate phrase. It was refreshing to hear my colleague, Liberal MP Iqra Khalid, actually refer to this as corruption, because that's exactly what it is.
I'm sure, Ms. Morgan, given your level of experience with government, that you're certainly familiar with the sponsorship scandal that brought down the Chrétien and Martin governments.
Are you familiar with that?
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
It's no small wonder, given the gravity of what we have with the green slush fund corruption scandal, that an associate deputy minister was heard on a secret tape referring to exactly this. This is a sponsorship scandal-style level of corruption within the government, the likes of which he has not seen since the sponsorship scandal.
On the issue, then, of corruption, it's no small wonder that the opposition parties collectively voted in favour of an order for more transparency. What that entailed was essentially ordering documentation from the government, from the Auditor General and from the SDTC to shed more light. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau essentially said that sunlight was the best way to promote transparency and accountability. He ran on that in 2015.
The order of the House was made on June 10, 2024. On June 11, the clerk of the court sent letters to the Clerk of the Privy Council, the CEO of SDTC and the Auditor General of Canada to inform them of the order and that the documents were to be received by July 10, 2024.
It was no small surprise, given the level of corruption and secrecy behind this, that a great number of government departments and subsidiaries essentially redacted hundreds of pages of documents, pursuant to the order, which is the opposite of transparency and accountability.
I note that the Canada Revenue Agency heavily redacted; Innovation, Science and Economic Development heavily redacted and the National Research Council heavily redacted, as did Justice Canada and the Privy Council Office.
I want to confirm, from your perspective, that the documentation that SDTC provided pursuant to this order was completely unredacted.
Is that accurate?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We have provided all of the documents requested by Parliament. A very small number were redacted based on solicitor-client privilege alone.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Were they redacted on the basis of identity, addresses and personal information, or is it some other reason that you can't get into?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
The only documents that were redacted by SDTC were documents that included solicitor-client privilege, which is essentially legal advice. We provided 10,000 documents. I believe around 300 of them included some redaction for legal advice.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Were you part of that process of gathering up the documents, reviewing them and consulting with lawyers on the basis of what redactions, if any, would be made?
Was that a decision made by you and the board?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
The board directed staff and counsel to fully comply with the order.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Did you or any other member of the board actually review the documents—some 10,000 pages—prior to their release to the government?