Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 9th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You can ask your question again, and when you're done, I'll give you back five minutes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You'll have to stop the testimony, Chair, I think.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Just a moment. There is another point of order.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

I think it's only fair that Madame Sinclair-Desgagné gets her full six minutes at this point.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Certainly, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné will have her six minutes.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you may ask your question again.

Ms. Khalid, I appreciate that, but the interruption happened because of the numerous points of order, which were, as I said, a little thin regarding relevance, and I have always allowed members a lot of latitude.

Go ahead, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you to the member across the way and especially Mr. Drouin for mansplaining the issue before us.

Now, let's carry on. Ms. Batool followed you to CIBC, and according to the information I received, you met with her a few times while she was vice-president of SDTC. Are you saying that that wasn't the case, that you met her just once or twice? That is not the information I was given.

Could you please confirm?

[Navdeep Bains]

As I've said before, I may have met her a few times. I don't recall a specific number of times.

Again, SDTC is an arm's-length organization in which the management oversees the day-to-day operations.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

Just to give us an idea, when you say “a few times”, do you mean once or twice, or 10 to 15 times?

[Navdeep Bains]

Again, I can't put a specific number on it. It was over six years ago. I dealt with a number of people during my tenure as a minister.

As a minister, my objective was to oversee and make sure that I was part of the process—

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

All right. Thank you, Mr. Bains.

Were you later involved in Ms. Batool's hiring at CIBC? Did you know her or not?

[Navdeep Bains]

Again, I'm here to talk about Sustainable Development Technology Canada and any questions you have pertaining to that.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

This is my time, and I can ask you questions about your possible involvement in the process to hire Ms. Batool.

All I want to know is why you pushed for Ms. Batool to be hired at CIBC if you didn't know her or hardly knew her.

You'll see where I'm going with this. It has to do with SDTC, so answer the question, please.

[Navdeep Bains]

As I said, I'm more than pleased to answer any questions pertaining to Sustainable Development Technology Canada.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'm getting to my question about SDTC. My questions do pertain to SDTC.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ask your question again, please.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

For the third time, I want to know whether you were involved in the process to bring Ms. Batool to CIBC, after your meetings with her when she was the vice-president of SDTC.

[Navdeep Bains]

As I've mentioned, I met with Ms. Batool when I was a minister. I don't recall the number of times specifically.

As I've also highlighted, Sustainable Development Technology Canada is an arm's-length organization.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

You're saying, then, that the fact that you had met her previously, when she was the vice-president of SDTC, did not influence your decision to later bring her to CIBC. You maintain that your co-operation and meetings with her while she was at SDTC had nothing to do with the fact that she came over to work with you at CIBC.

[Navdeep Bains]

As I've mentioned before, the management oversees the day-to-day operations at Sustainable Development Technology Canada, which is an arm's-length organization.

My sole responsibility—

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, but you're not answering my question. It's a pretty simple one.

Did your meetings with Ms. Batool while she was the vice-president of SDTC affect her being hired by CIBC? It's a yes or no question, Mr. Bains. Please answer.

[Navdeep Bains]

It's an arm's-length organization that oversees SDTC, and my responsibility as administrator was to appoint seven of the 15 board members.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Since I'm not going to get an answer from you, I'll move on to something else.

You were asked a question earlier.

Who encouraged you to hire or appoint Ms. Verschuren? Was it someone internal, within Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada?

[Navdeep Bains]

With respect to the individual, Ms. Verschuren, as you know, she had an impeccable track record. She was appointed by Stephen Harper in 2006—

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I asked you who encouraged you to appoint Ms. Verschuren. Can you tell me, please? Was it Andrew Noseworthy who encouraged you to hire her? Did Mr. Noseworthy have anything to do with the process?

[Navdeep Bains]

There was a new process established in 2016 that was open to all Canadians, and it was an open, fair—