Evidence of meeting #147 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.)
A video is available from Parliament.
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
I found out they were on the list several years later. That list was not known at the time of the discussion at the council, because it was an omnibus measure.
Conservative
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I guess what I'm getting at is this. We just heard that there are over two million Canadians a month now accessing food banks. If any of them are watching, they will see connected insiders accessing taxpayers' money without any oversight.
You mentioned Canadians are being attacked. Do you not sense that, perhaps, Canadians sitting at home are going to be enraged over this issue? It's $400 million in taxpayers' money going to connected insiders while they're at food banks.
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
I certainly wouldn't want to take anything away from food banks. What you're saying is simply untrue.
It was an established program, there were criteria, we followed them and we received advice. I wasn't appointed to do governance; I was appointed to review projects with my skills as an engineer. My tenure on the board was conducted completely honestly.
Of the 23 companies on the Auditor General's list, there are 21 in which we did not invest because of a potential conflict of interest, but two of them did receive funding. That's all I can tell you. I can only tell you the truth, because there's nothing but the truth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Méthot, thank you for joining us, though I'm sure you have other fish to fry.
As I've said at other committees, we seem to be going around in circles, and your presence here is proof of that. People are looking for someone to blame. I don't know what auditing tactics those sitting across the table are using, but I can see that there's a lack of knowledge in this area.
You spoke a bit about your experience. You were awarded the National Order of Quebec in 2018, and you won the Grand Prix d'excellence of the Ordre des ingénieurs du Québec in 2019. You were chosen by Investissement Québec as their ambassador in the clean-tech sector.
People like Andrée‑Lise Méthot are few and far between in Canada and Quebec.
We're talking about people with rather rare knowledge, aren't we?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Nowadays, there are more and more people like me, but when I began my career, I was alone. There was nobody else. Today, I am very proud to say that there are many people doing the same thing as me and that there is an ecosystem. There are entrepreneurs, financiers and a lot of people who think we can make clean tech a prolific and profitable sector.
So Andrée‑Lise Méthot is no more exceptional than others. There are more and more people like me, and we want there to be a lot of them, because we want this sector to play a big role in Canada.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
You were accused of certain things.
Can you explain to the committee the difference between assets and returns on assets?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Mr. Perkins was referring to our website, which shows how many dollars are under management. It's the notion of assets under management.
When we launched our business, our assets were valued at $100 million or $150 million. Today, we are a little better recognized, and our assets have increased. Our website shows them at $600 million, but our assets will soon reach $700 million. Indeed, we've convinced many foreign and private actors to continue to invest with us in climate technology companies. Most of them are Canadian companies.
The value of the portfolio is something separate. That term refers to adding dollars in order to invest. It has nothing to do with performance. I suspect Mr. Perkins knows this quite well, since he knows the sector very well. I'd like to add that I respect him.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
You talked about growth and your portfolio's holdings.
Ten years ago, the clean-tech sector was generally growing in Canada. However, you alluded to the fact that there was a lack of capital in Canada, as in all other sectors, compared to what is happening south of the border, which can be described as a superpower.
Can you briefly explain the sector's evolution?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
The sector's evolution is truly incredible. We're now receiving about 1,000 files a year, which present wonderful investment opportunities. One third of those files come from Canada, and their quality is higher than what we were seeing 10 years ago. So Canada has improved. However, Canada is not alone—the entire planet has improved as well. We're in a race.
Personally, I want to make sure that Canadian entrepreneurs' portfolios are as good as those of American or European entrepreneurs, in whom we've also invested.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I'd like to go back to the COVID payments.
All the economic development agencies had virtually the same goal, which was to get the money out as quickly as possible. However, these were not new businesses. They were businesses with which there was already a contribution agreement.
At the time, SDTC and the regional development agencies did not know what was in store for them. They received the same instruction, which was to call their clients and make sure that, if there were problems, they could obtain support.
From what I understand, you did not approve requests from specific companies.
Is that correct?
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
No, there weren't specific companies, but rather all portfolios of companies whose eligibility had already been validated as a result of an SDTC process. No new businesses were added.
The first year of the COVID‑19 pandemic was extremely difficult for entrepreneurs. Every week, we called the companies in our portfolios. We received tremendous support from many officials, from different provinces, from various states, from the federal government and from the United States.
We were able to meet with entrepreneurs. We explained how they could obtain loans or grants and market equity. As you know, if a company goes bankrupt, it takes about 10 years to bring the technology back to a commercial level. There was exceptional collaboration among officials, bankers, lenders and venture capitalists.
We also held meetings with many people on apps such as Zoom or Teams to support our businesses, especially the Canadian ones.
I want to thank officials from a number of federal agencies for the work they did. They helped us tremendously. We worked really well during those years.
October 28th, 2024 / 12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Ms. Méthot, you and I will talk as two women environmentalists.
I well understand everything you're saying. Indeed, there may have been potential media bubbles created by certain interest groups, which do not favour clean and green technologies. These are not companies like the ones back home in Quebec, which are already at the forefront of new sustainable development technologies.
I don't think the role of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts is to call into question all the work you've done during your career to promote the development of these new businesses. Nevertheless, I do see one thing. As a member and vice-chair of this committee, I see that an initial report was tabled with SDTC by a whistle-blower who said he had observed highly problematic behaviour at SDTC.
Raymond Chabot Grant Thornton produced a fairly devastating preliminary report on SDTC's management. Then things became so heated that the Auditor General of Canada launched her own study.
In October 2023, after the Auditor General announced that she was undertaking a study—which would be public—every member of the SDTC board resigned, one after another. At the same time, Minister Champagne cut off SDTC's funding.
A fund that existed for over 20 years and whose goal was very noble was dismantled. In addition, we don't even know whether the money, which is still in SDTC's hands, will be used for the same cause.
Don't you think that, as a board member, you could have or should have seen more things, pointed out potential problems and not resigned after the Auditor General's announcement? That would have made it possible to remedy the situation and allow the businesses in our region that were eligible, perhaps 90% of the businesses that received funding, to continue to receive it rather than be imperiled because of the misconduct of certain people at SDTC.
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Let’s talk.
I left SDTC before any kind of report was published. In fact, I told the leadership that after my first four-year mandate, I wanted to leave my position. I found that a mandate as long as that involved an enormous amount of work. We spent many hours reading files.
Since we were in the middle of the COVID‑19 pandemic, I was asked to stay one more year. I agreed to extend my mandate, but I did not want to do two mandates. I left SDTC three years ago.
As for the human resources allegations, I was not aware of any of it. I think those were revealed years after I left; I don’t know which year. However, I was not aware of them, myself.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
The allegations started during the spring of 2023, for the most part. They had even started—
Founder and managing partner, Cycle Capital Management, As an Individual
Very well.
I just want to correct one date. I left—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I am sorry to interrupt you.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagnés, we will definitely come back to your questions. You will have another chance to ask them later.
Up next is Mr. Cooper for five minutes, please.
Mr. Cooper, you have the floor.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Madam Méthot, you tabled—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Please excuse me.
I'm getting ahead of myself.
Pardon me, Ms. Blaney, the floor is yours. You have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair. I thought maybe there was a different cycle here.
I'm going to give you the space to answer the question you were asked, just at the end, by my Bloc colleague.