Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 18th, 2024

[John Knubley]

I'll do my best to answer that question.

For one year, I was the associate deputy minister of Natural Resources Canada. I believe it was 2007. Gary Lunn was my minister. As you say—and it's reported in the Auditor General's report of 2017—there was activity related to carbon sequestration and storage and projects there that were examined. There were the ecoENERGY initiatives that were part of the department, and then there was SDTC.

What I can say is that Minister Lunn, like Minister Bains, was very eager to make progress on improving clean technology. There was also a biofuels program. You've asked about my history. I was also deputy minister of agriculture with Minister Ritz. We were very interested, minister and deputy, in this biofuels fund.

All of that is to say that what I observed as a deputy was that there was lots of commitment and activity under both governments, whatever their stripe. There was a different orientation. You described well Prime Minister Harper's orientation. I think what I'd say in terms of the new Liberal government's orientation is that it was about building clean-tech companies to really promote growth and to commercialize their activities.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

I just realized that ex-minister Gary Lunn was named to this fund as well.

I have a list of the board directors from this organization's inception. From 2007 to 2015, the majority of them were Conservative donors. Do you think that where they decided to spend their dollars on political donations impacted the work they did? I would love to know, because I know the Conservatives love to know how, who, where, what and why, so I would also like to know.

For context, do you think any of these Conservative donors used their positions at SDTC in any way other than what was appropriate?

[John Knubley]

No. Honestly, with the board I saw from 2017, which had some former Conservative members on it, and the boards that subsequently followed, this was not a political issue. It was really about how we build clean tech in the country, because it really matters, and how we help clean-tech companies become global companies. How do we help clean tech be a leader?

Honestly, what I saw—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Sir, I think you're having a nosebleed.

[John Knubley]

I know. I'm sorry.

Do you see what you're doing to me, guys?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, is it okay if we pause my time for a bit?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes. We can suspend.

[John Knubley]

I'm okay. Just carry on. I'm good. It's not going to stop quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You have about 30 seconds, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thanks very much.

To our witness today, in terms of context, between 2007 and 2015, we saw a whole bunch of people who were appointed who were also card-carrying Conservatives donating to the Conservative Party. We saw former prime minister Stephen Harper personally getting involved in SDTC and how this money was spent. I'd like to believe that this is not because somebody has a political agenda to fulfill; it is ultimately to help the clean-tech sector.

Would you agree with that, sir?

[John Knubley]

Yes. As a deputy minister, I did not observe [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I observed that everyone was committed to improving the clean-tech sector and growing Canada's economy.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. That is the time.

Mr. Knubley, I'm going to suspend the meeting for just five minutes. Your sound is good, but it's not great, so I'm going to suspend the meeting. Please stay online. I think someone from the IT team is going to call you, so have your phone handy. Do not disconnect. Someone will call you. Thank you.

I will suspend right now for five minutes, please. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I call this meeting back into session.

It is my intention to finish up for one o'clock, and I've spoken to members about that.

Mr. Knubley, thank you for that. I understand that it's still a bit shaky, so we're going to see how it goes. I should maybe check to make sure you can hear me this time.

Can you hear me, Mr. Knubley?

[John Knubley]

Mr. Chair, I can hear you much better.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay, that's good. As I said, they weren't able to fix the sound ideally, so we're going to see how it goes.

It is my intention to finish up by one o'clock, so without further ado we turn things back over to Mr. Perkins.

You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Knubley, for your patience.

I'm a little confused. I'm going to follow up on some of the questions that were asked earlier.

Assistant deputy minister Noseworthy reported to you. Is that correct?

[John Knubley]

Yes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Did you do regular quarterly reviews or performance reviews of Mr. Noseworthy?

[John Knubley]

We spoke regularly. I mean, in the case of Andrew Noseworthy, as you likely know, he resides in Newfoundland, and so—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

He resided in Newfoundland while he was—

[John Knubley]

I was just going to say that it was usually by telephone. That's all.

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Was he residing in Newfoundland for all of the time while he was sitting in the board meetings of SDTC?

[John Knubley]

Well, I think that, prior to COVID, he would go to the meetings.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay.

[John Knubley]

As you know, once we went into COVID, it was more virtual. Again, I wasn't around then. You'd have to ask Mr. Noseworthy.