Evidence of meeting #153 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I was aware that there were conflicts that some board members had, because they declared conflicts.
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
In my role as the vice-president of ecosystems, I always did my best to manage these conflicts of interest and to ensure that the stewardship of public funds was done in the best way possible. I have to say—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Were you aware that in the contribution agreement it was required that the foundation report conflicts or perceived conflicts to the minister?
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Yes, I was aware of that. It was my understanding that there was a departmental liaison who had access to the board materials, including the minutes, and the conflicts would have been—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Let me just ask again. You were aware that they were required to be reported to the minister. Did you ever follow up on any of those to ensure that these conflicts were addressed?
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I appreciate the question from the honourable member. It was not my responsibility to report those conflicts.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm sorry, but you were a vice-president—and probably a well-compensated vice-president—in the public service, and you didn't believe it was your job to report these. We had a whistle-blower, and I'm sure you've read the testimony, because you reported on it. He was not a high-level senior executive like yourself, but he had the bravery to come forward to try to stop this fraud.
Didn't you, as the vice-president, see it as your responsibility to follow up on this? Help me out here.
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
It was my understanding these conflicts were reported into the department by us providing them with copies of the minutes of the board meetings and the materials from the board meetings.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
This fraud went on for years. You just turned a blind eye. You were aware. You said, “Okay, we reported it through the minutes,” but it continued for years. It was $400 million stolen from taxpayers, yet, as the vice-president, you did your job by sending along an email or sending along minutes and then walking away. I'm just flabbergasted how this could happen.
I guess I don't have an answer.
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I'm sorry, but I didn't hear a question. Was there a question?
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm flabbergasted. How did you allow that to happen? In what world does a vice-president—a well-paid, well-compensated and well-pensioned vice-president—not take any responsibility when taxpayers' money is being defrauded? I could see a one-off. If it happened once, okay—“I saw the minutes went up the line”—but this went on for years. Millions were stolen for years, and you were aware and you were a vice-president, but it was a shrug.
Sir, I don't think I'm going to get a response.
I'm going to turn my final minute over to Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Right.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor for one minute and four seconds.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Ms. Kolbuc, I am going to give you another opportunity to answer the question and I am going to continue on from what my colleague Mr. McCauley was saying.
You not only did not report the conflict of interest cases to the board of directors or the department, but you were part of it, since it was you yourself who retained Mr. Wormald to assess the applications he had authored himself.
My question is very clear. Do you understand that this is a conflict of interest, yes or no?
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I certainly have strengthened my understanding of conflict of interest to ensure that I can—
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
When you were hired, in 2016, did you have any training on conflicts of interest?
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Yes, I would have familiarized myself with the conflict of interest policy upon joining the organization.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
It seems that before the auditor general's report, you did not understand what a conflict of interest was, even though you had had training. It seemed to you that it was reasonable for a person to author an application to Sustainable Development Technology Canada and then be retained by the same organization to review the application. Does that seem reasonable to you?
Not to report that kind of conduct to the board of directors, to have it approve the project without knowing there was a gigantic conflict of interest, does that seem reasonable to you?
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I am going to have to say all of these matters were thoroughly reviewed by the Auditor General's office. They made a number of recommendations to strengthen the conflict of interest practices at SDTC. The foundation has accepted all of those recommendations, and I'm certainly following the policies and practices that are in place.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Mr. Drouin, the floor is now yours for five minutes.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Kolbuc, ordinarily, CEOs participate at board meetings, of course. In your case, were you often asked to participate at board meetings?
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
From time to time, I would be invited into board meetings to observe or, if there was a specific matter I needed to present on, I would present on that matter.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Right.
Earlier, you were asked questions about the conflict of interest policy. Once a conflict of interest was declared by a board member, what was the organization's directive? What was your role? Did knowing that there was a conflict of interest change how things were done, or did you continue with the same practices, regardless of what had happened?
Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We would always strive to manage the conflicts of interest, should we become aware of them. As I have mentioned, there were clearly gaps in the policies and procedures SDTC had in place to manage conflicts of interest.
I think the addition of an independent ethics adviser is a valued change within the foundation's mandate and within the foundation's organization. I think that person provides valuable expertise that was lacking before.