Evidence of meeting #17 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was accounts.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Okay.
Turning to the Treasury Board, pensions for public servants represent a significant part of compensation costs. We know that there is a great struggle to attract and retain staff. Do you have any opinion as to what kind of a role that may play in attracting and retaining staff right now?
1:20 p.m.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
So you're making a link between the actual pension expenses and the capacity to attract staff.
1:20 p.m.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
As a public servant, I'm not going to hide the fact that we have a pretty nice pension package and benefits, so, for certain, it could be a strong point in how we attract people, but again, we tell you every year that we have to revalue these pension expenses and, again, it is one of our major expenditures, as you could see, but it's definitely something that is considerable when you're employed in the federal public service.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Are you struggling to attract and retain the staff you need?
1:25 p.m.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Like I said, my colleague here at TBS would be in charge of all the strategies around retention and staffing as the chief human resource officer, but I will tell you that, like any other business, especially given the different spheres of the industries and levels of expertise that we need, we will struggle.
As you know, the employment insurance numbers are very low, and people of all industries are trying to attract people. If I take a look at my own, I run a financial management community, and there is expertise out there. We don't have enough accountants, to be honest with you. Again, we're trying to find ways to attract accountants coming out of universities, but it is a challenge on many fronts.
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much. That is the time on this one.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
1:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to finish my question for Mr. Huppé.
Mr. Huppé, I would really like a legal opinion or an opinion from Treasury Board on the best way to require Crown corporations to provide this additional information, that is, the name of organizations that received over $100,00 in public funds and their headquarters location.
Can you please confirm with a simple yes or no?
1:25 p.m.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
We can send you a more detailed reply on the most realistic processes that could be initiated to get what you want.
1:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Thank you. I imagine there are a number of ways of going about it, whether by regulations, through Treasury Board, or by legislation.
I would also point out that Crown corporations account for a third of assets, liabilities and expenses in the 2020-2021 financial statements. So it is very important for Quebecers and Canadians to be able to access that information if they wish. It is a question of transparency and accountability. In saying this, I am looking at my colleagues. Achieving that could be our legacy as members of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.
In the minute remaining, I would like to ask a celebrity in our midst a question.
Mr. Sabia, I have followed your work in Quebec for a number of years and I am delighted to see you here.
You talked about scenarios you developed at the finance department as to rising interest rates, and in particular the inflation anticipated in the coming months. Last week, in fact, I was at a meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance attended by officials from the Bank of Canada, which is predicting higher inflation rates.
Did you consider these predictions regarding the rate of inflation and, potentially, the drop...
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
1:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Do your forecasts reflect the rising rate of inflation and the resulting drop in revenues?
1:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Rising inflation will not necessarily result in lower revenues. Revenues will probably keep pace with the rising inflation rate, because that increases nominal GDP, which in turn increases our revenues.
More broadly speaking, we are well aware of the uncertainties of the current economic situation, and we are really focusing on that. There is so much uncertainty. For the time being, as to Canada's growth rate, we do indeed have a problem related to inflation...
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I have to interrupt you here.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
1:25 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Now I would like to turn my last line of questioning to the Treasury Board representative related to my first line of questioning on the pay system and our Auditor General's suggestions since 2016 to improve the system and the many hundreds of thousands of pay requests that the government is currently sitting on and the employees who are suffering for it.
My question is quite frank. What steps will the Treasury Board take in order to reduce the number of outstanding pay action requests? Maybe you have an example of how we've been able to take it down just this last year from 300,000 to 250,000, which is still a ridiculous number, but what steps are in place and what confidence do Canadians have, particularly employees, that these will be successful?
1:30 p.m.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Throughout the past few years, many steps have been taken. Our colleagues at the public services department who handle the compensation have obviously worked diligently. They've hired more staff and more compensation advisers with better training. They've looked at redefining some of the business processes. They've also made a lot of system modifications and adjustments to try to eliminate or decrease the backlog.
Like you said, there's still an enormous amount of backlog, but it has considerably decreased since 2018.
At the same time, our colleagues at Shared Services Canada are working on developing what I would call a next-generation pay system. We'll be looking at doing some pilots with some key departments to come up with a new system and a new solution that will hopefully solve—
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I'm sorry. I just have limited time.
During this new portion, will Treasury Board consult with PSAC, for example, to avoid this problem?
To rewind here, this is the exact situation that Treasury Board got itself into the first time when we introduced the Phoenix pay system.. Not consulting with workers resulted in a direct impact to workers. We're still trying to clean it up.
To be frank, I don't see those measures helping. This is still a huge amount. It's over 200,000 pay requests. It's not quick enough. You need to hire far more advisers. I'd consider paying damages at this point. These are real concerns.
Would TBS consider working with folks who are actually on the other end of these pay systems in order to get it right? My fear is we're going to have another pilot program that's going to increase these—
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Mr. Desjarlais, I'm going to let the witness respond because we're running out of time here. We might lose the connection.
1:30 p.m.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Shared Services Canada is the department that leads these efforts right now. Without knowing all of the details, I can assure you that a very large consultation process has been ongoing and will continue. I would step out and say that absolutely, every key stakeholder will be consulted through this.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you.
Thank you to all of the witnesses, particularly those who had to do some rescheduling and those who agreed to stay a little longer than anticipated. Thank you very much for being here today.
I'd like to remind members that we'll be studying the main estimates and the departmental results report from the Office of the Auditor General on Thursday.
I now adjourn this meeting. Thank you very much.