Public Accounts Committee on May 3rd, 2022

[Michael Sabia]

Go ahead, Nick.

[Nicholas Leswick]

Quite honestly, it's the miracle of low interest rates and just the impact that low interest rates have had on public debt charges as we roll over debt and refinance at lower rates, again, just speaking to this secular decline in rates but the more dramatic recent decline in rates and how that's fed through the government's market debt stock.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Yes, it was a significant difference. I wanted to ask that to put it on the record.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You still have 30 seconds, Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I was very careful to stay on time.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Well, I was very careful to reset the clock.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Fair enough.

I'm looking at, in fact, as far as revenues are concerned...there's a term applied here: the carbon pricing policy of the government, overall quite limited, not even 2%. Can you confirm that?

[Michael Sabia]

Yes, I think that's....

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Right, so overall, it's a very limited amount.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

I'm resetting my clock here.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to hear from Ms. Hogan, the Auditor General of Canada, regarding the reporting requirements of Crown corporations.

Looking a bit more closely at the regulations, Crown corporations are required to report their financial statements in accordance with generally recognized accounting principles. It would however be possible, through regulations, to add accounting principles that would require financial statements to be reported.

I would like to know whether the Auditor General believes it would be possible to use regulations to require the disclosure of more detailed financial statements. In other words, using the same example, I am referring to releasing the names of organizations that received more than $100,000 in funding and the location of their headquarters. Could that be done through regulations?

[Karen Hogan]

In terms of the requirements of accounting standards, most Crown corporations do indeed follow international financial reporting standards. The reporting of expenditures is really a question of how the organization is managed. The information you are looking for is actually additional information. You want to know whether the government could use regulations or policies to require Crown corporations to disclose this additional information. We have to be careful though because Crown corporations are not subject to all Treasury Board policies.

The information currently reported is in accordance with generally recognized accounting principles. What you are asking for is above and beyond that.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Precisely.

Thank you, Ms. Hogan.

I have another question for Mr. Huppé.

So regulations could be made to require this additional information, and Treasury Board could do that. Is that correct?

[Roch Huppé]

Honestly, I would have to ask our colleagues from the justice department who exactly would do what in this regard.

You have to remember that each Crown corporation reports to a department or is part of a portfolio, so to speak, so reporting requirements could obviously vary.

As I said earlier, it would probably require legislation.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I would really appreciate it if you could...

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I have to interrupt you here, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, but you will have another two and a half minutes in the fourth round.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor, for two and a half minutes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to pick up where I left off with the Department of Finance, relating to some of the programs and benefits. The three main benefits, if I understand correctly.... From the Auditor General's report here, there were some overpayments.

How many of these overpayments have been recovered to date?

[Michael Sabia]

That is an ongoing process in the public accounts. The number is about $3.7 billion of overpayments. A lot of that, the majority of that, about $3 billion, is from the employment insurance system, and the emergency measures that were taken there. The remainder, about $700 million, is from the CERB.

All of that is subject to ongoing auditing and verification by both Revenue Canada and the Department of Employment and Social Development with respect to the EI component. Once those things are verified, the usual processes will then set in place between Revenue Canada and individuals who may have received these payments in error.

While I wasn't there at the beginning of these programs, as the member now knows, these programs were designed, because of the importance of speed. They were based on an attestation from the individual who was receiving the benefits. Honestly, based on an attestation system, it's not really surprising that there will be instances of overpayments. How that gets handled...I think those situations have to be handled carefully and sensitively to the circumstances of the individuals. I believe that's the approach that the government will be taking with this.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I'm not sure if I have enough time to get this question, Chair, how much time?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You've got about 25 seconds, so keep your question brief and the answer should be brief.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I think I know the answer to this question, but I want to make sure to ask it. Did the Government of Canada, during these three programs, do a gender-based analysis, a GBA+? What were the findings, and are they publicly available?

[Michael Sabia]

I don't know. Evelyn, do you?

[Evelyn Dancey, Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

To keep the answer brief, for all of the funding decisions that are communicated in budgets for the Canadian Gender Budgeting Act, there is GBA+ that's disclosed in the impact report, so we can follow up with information to address your question.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Are they publicly available now?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Desjarlais, I'm going to stop you there, but I guarantee you'll have another round.

We'll turn now to Mr. Patzer, for five minutes, please