Evidence of meeting #25 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was long-term.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
In our settlement agreement we indicated that we would make that effort to table in the fall.
Conservative
Eric Duncan Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
I respect that.
I think where I'm going with this is that we're still lacking the assurance. Lots of times we're seeing this delayed in terms of how it's going. Again, I understand the intent and the well-being and the effort for it, but we're constantly missing these deadlines of how they're set up and where we want to go.
I'll say that, when it's introduced, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's enacted. It has to go through the parliamentary process to make sure that we're getting this right. It just speaks, again, to the frustration that here we are, a year and a half from quite a damning report, and we're still having dates and intent there but no actual follow-through on meeting these deadlines.
Ms. Hogan, just based on what you've been hearing today, I know you haven't done a specific audit follow-up from your initial report, but are you getting better confidence that the department and officials and the government are changing the status quo, changing some of those fundamental problems? Are you actually seeing results a year and a half in, or are you still just hearing an intent, a follow-through, a well-meaning approach to this?
Are you fundamentally seeing the change that you think is necessary to change the structure of the system that you deemed to be broken?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
Mr. Chair, that's really a very difficult question to answer. As the member rightfully noted, I have not looked at the new funding formula to ensure that it addresses all the items we would hope it was updated to look at.
When it comes to an act and legislative framework, more than just an act is needed. There was an act put in place in 2013, but what was missing were the regulations, which is really the way to operationalize that. All of that has to be thought through. If all of those are steps and actions have been taken, then I do believe they are steps in the right direction. However, I do agree with the member that just making commitments doesn't necessarily result in results. It's really whether those actions will have concrete impact on first nations and communities. That will be the measure of success.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you, Ms. Hogan.
We will turn now to Mr. Dong.
You have the floor for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
Deputy Fox, we've been hearing a lot of frustration, I think, on the focal point of the timeline and why the overall water advisories are still there. I hear my honourable colleagues talking about government spending a lot of time making commitments, making announcements, but being not very good at following through.
I actually think it's the opposite. I think we have not communicated well enough to the public on the latest stage of long-term water advisories. When I knock on doors I get questions from constituents, and they are very frustrated. They see this on the news. When I tell them the latest update of how many have been identified—short term, as you said—and how many have actually been lifted in the last six and a half years, they have no idea and they actually approve of these things happening.
Let me just go back a little bit. I looked around, and I couldn't find when the government started issuing long-term water advisories for the first time. Do you have any idea how long ago that was? I know this is an ancient question.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I would have to check. I don't have it offhand. I'm sorry.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Okay.
Six and a half years ago how many long-term water advisories were there?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Mr. Chair, there were 105 long-term drinking advisories when we started this work back in 2015.
Liberal
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
That doesn't make sense. You started with 105, and then you get there. Why is that?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I can explain that.
If there is an issue with a water advisory in a community, the first step is that it goes to a short-term drinking water advisory in the hope that we resolve that. If it's not resolved within a 12-month period, it becomes a long-term drinking water advisory.
I would say that it's not just about doing the work to lift the long-term drinking water advisory, because if you ignore the balance of the water systems, they will find their way into that. It's about obviously the work to lift them, but also the sustainability of the water infrastructure to avoid systems from going to short-term and then eventually long-term advisories.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Do you have a number for the short-term water advisories six and a half years ago?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
The number of short-term...six and a half years ago—
Liberal
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I know that we've lifted 219 since then.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Okay.
I hear a lot of comments about how we have to get this done ASAP. I believe everybody in this room wants this to be lifted ASAP. Can you talk about the complexity in itself?
You have to work with the local indigenous community and make sure that all their concerns are met, and we have to deal with this problem once and for all. I hear that there is a lot of one-time funding to deal with infrastructure. Can you speak a little bit about that and leave me about one minute? I have one more question on this.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Mr. Chair, I would say that the complexities are enormous. They are very different depending on what community you are working in. It could be about where the community is located in terms of the ability to even construct a long-term facility on the type of land that may be present in the community. I know that has been a challenge.
There is sometimes a challenge around the remoteness of some of these communities where building seasons are shortened by the fact that they're in the north or in rural parts of the country. Once built, at times there are capacity challenges in communities in order to make sure that trained operators have the right supports in place to maintain these systems. There is—
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
I'm sorry. Just as a side question, you said about half of the remaining advisories are still to be determined in terms of timeline. When do you think we're going to have a better idea of when the 17 are going to be lifted?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
That's a great question. It's a question we ask ourselves a lot. I may turn to Nelson just to talk a little bit about our work with the communities.
You are correct. We are expecting that 45% to be lifted by December and some in June and July.
Liberal
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
We are projecting at least one for next year, but we want to work with the others to try to see what can be done.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
If you have a better idea, you can submit it later.
My last question—