Evidence of meeting #40 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A video is available from Parliament.
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Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
Put the money in the right places, to those who need it the most, yes.
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Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
That circles all the way back to the risk-based assessments and risk-based strategies, rather than proposal-based.
I always joke that in my vast experience, and being on these files for three whole years now, one of the frustrations is that we get stuck in these “here's how we do it” boxes. We don't think outside the boxes; we don't think of new and different ways. Part of that is the systems. Part of that is the systems we create within our bureaucracy, where we create spaces for people where they have to be safe and they can't make decisions out of...and I get that in large organizations. That's not even necessarily a criticism, but an observation.
I'm going to come back for a second to the context of how we spend the money, spending the money in the right places.
There was a PBO report that was released on May 18, 2022, and it talked a lot about the increase in spending in both ISC and CIRNAC, from 2015-16 all the way to 2022. It compared those to the results that were recorded in all the departmental results, and it did an analysis of all that.
I would look for your comment on this conclusion. It says:
The analysis conducted indicates that the increased spending did not result in a commensurate improvement in the ability of these organizations to achieve the goals that they had set for themselves.
It goes on with a bit of an explanation about how some of the targets and whatever get moved around, but in the very end it says we did not achieve these commensurate improvements based on that. In fact, it says, “Based on the qualitative review the ability to achieve the targets specified has declined.” If you go further into the report, it talks about spending increasing by 115% over those years, but the results achieved....
My colleague, Mr. McCauley, was talking about the challenge of people being held to account for their performance bonus, and the comeback was that that doesn't necessarily impact department results because it's personal goals and personal things. But if none of that is connected, if we don't connect the personal outcomes to the departmental results, where's the incentive to get it done? Where's the incentive to get the job done when it's personal results, not corporate results? We need to get outcomes.
Maybe, Deputy Minister, I'll let you respond to that, in the context of your department. Would you agree that we need to find a way to make sure we're getting better results by whatever processes are included in your department?
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Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I agree. I'm an optimist and I believe in continuous improvement. I believe in working smarter, yes.
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Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Jean Yip
Thank you.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming and answering questions on an emotional and challenging issue. Thank you for that.
I'd also like to thank the committee for all your great questions.
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Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Jean Yip
Yes, I'd like to thank the clerk, our translators and our analysts.
Is the committee in agreement to adjourn the meeting?
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Some hon. members
Agreed.
