Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I mean for the problems with fixing those items.

[Paul Thompson]

There indeed have been some operational issues identified that are the subject of some ongoing work with DND. I don't think we've arrived at a fully costed resolution of that, but I'll let Simon—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

With respect to the diesel generator or the engine issue that came up, have we identified who's at fault? I have heard that the shipbuilder actually left equipment out on the docks that was affected by salt water, etc., which was the problem. Have we identified...?

[Paul Thompson]

We have not yet resolved that issue completely. It's still under discussion.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Will taxpayers be relieved of that cost? Will it be billed back to the builder if it was determined that it was their error?

[Paul Thompson]

I'm not in a position today to talk about the outcome of those discussions, but there are active discussions on the issue.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Assuming it was true and Irving was at fault, will taxpayers be let off the hook for that?

I think it's a fair question and we should know the answer.

[Paul Thompson]

It's a bit of a hypothetical scenario, but I can let Simon speak to the facts of where we're at on the investigation.

[Simon Page]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

The investigation is progressing and the discussions remain active.

To your specific question about when something like that is found—when a problem is found—we do look at where the source of the problem—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

When do we expect an answer on the case?

[Simon Page]

I would say, Mr. Chair, that over the next two months we'll have an answer.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay, it will be shortly. That's wonderful.

I assume that's my time.

Thank you, gentlemen.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Shanahan, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I thank the witnesses for appearing before us today and for the work they do. It's very timely that we're having this meeting, because the surveillance of Arctic territory is very important.

Monsieur Pelletier, did I hear you correctly? In a previous answer, did you say something about how 10 years ago we were a leader—I don't know what it was in—but due to cutbacks, we were reduced? Can you please expand on that?

[Mario Pelletier]

Fifteen years ago, e-navigation was a new concept that was being introduced. In Canada, we had some pioneers that were pushing it a lot.

Through various program reductions, we had to dial back a little bit, but I am happy to report that we're back on top of the list of worldwide participants in e-navigation.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I'm glad to hear that. I'd just like to understand a bit more about e-navigation and what the program reduction was. How did that come down?

[Mario Pelletier]

E-navigation stands for enhanced navigation. Some people will think about electronic navigation. It's making sure that the mariner has the right information at the right time when they need it. They don't have to search. Everything gets funnelled through a single point. That's what e-navigation is.

Part of that, as well, is modernizing equipment. I mentioned buoys earlier. Probably 30 years from now, we'll still have some floating aids to navigation, some floating buoys, but a lot of that will be able to be done electronically or virtually. That allows us to push information if an aid to navigation is not functioning properly or if one of our marine communication or traffic services sites is not working. That is the means we will use to pass on the information.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I'd like to talk about the decisions to invest in such programs. Are they short-term or long-term decisions? Does it happen that you have to invest in something today and you're only going to see the benefit down the line?

Why would it be cut back? Was it just not working?

[Mario Pelletier]

No, I think it was working.

There's the available technology, too. In the last 10 years, we've all seen the use of mobile devices and so on. Everything has increased a lot. Networks are much more reliable than they used to be. We don't depend on physical phone lines, which created some headaches for us in the past.

We did modernize a lot of other things, like our marine communication and traffic services. We have 185 communication towers across the country. There was a single point of failure before. Now we have redundancy all through the system.

We invested in this kind of thing to make sure that the infrastructure was reliable. Now we're starting to invest again and push the technology.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Is it important to invest in these technologies even if they don't show a benefit right away?

[Mario Pelletier]

Yes. In the world of digitalization right now, I think there's no other option.

Not everybody who is on the water has a self-locating device, but they all have their cellphone. We need to make better use of that. For instance, if you see some oil in the water, how can you report it? You don't have to search for a phone number. We'll have an app dedicated to that, where you will be able to take a picture and report what you are seeing, so we can take action more quickly.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

It would be very short-sighted to have an approach to save a few dollars today to cut that kind of initiative and then have to come back to it years later when time has marched on.

Thank you for that answer.

I do understand that data sharing is one of the problems that the Auditor General's office identified. Mr. Hayes, do you have any suggestions here about how that can be improved?

[Andrew Hayes]

I would point to the fact that we made recommendations to address the long-standing known issues, including the need to get a complete picture. Whether the e-navigation system is a way to do that, I'm not able to answer that. What we do know is that as traffic is increasing in the north and climate change is making it more likely that traffic will increase even more, there needs to be a better picture up north.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Of course.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for the representatives of the Department of Public Works and Government Services and they are on the same topic as before.

I would like to talk about the statement made in November that indicated that the Davie Shipyard was to be included in the national shipbuilding strategy. The agreement should have been signed by the end of 2022.

How are things progressing with this third shipyard and its integration into the national shipbuilding strategy?