Public Accounts Committee on March 1st, 2022

[Andrew Hayes]

It's situationally dependent. For example, in the procurement context, we would look at whether or not any of the recipients had been identified as having undertaken illegal activities in the past or had been flagged by the government as not being eligible for government contracts. There can be a ton of different things that we look at, depending on the circumstances.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

I'll yield that minute, so maybe we can get out of here on time.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Dong, you have five minutes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'm really glad I have another opportunity to ask questions.

I remember in my previous life, when I was a member of the provincial Ontario parliament, I led the consultation for security in Ontario. We went to different cities and townships all the way up to Lac Seul. One thing I still pick up from time to time is the innovation factor in the clean energy or the innovation in providing food in remote communities.

I want to ask the ministry folks if we have any programs to support the innovation as the technology advances, whether it's solar power or whether it's on the...I've forgotten what it's called, but basically it was a vapour that they used to save water and everything is in an indoor platform. Is there any program for that which you can tell us about?

Go ahead, Deputy Minister.

[Chris Forbes]

Maybe I don't understand the question. Is it for food security? What was the—

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

For food security, do they have irrigation systems, solar powered systems or indoor greenhouse technology that can be deployed remotely? What kind of program do you have for that?

[Chris Forbes]

There are a number of program supports. First of all, there is some research work that we will often do with provinces or other partners, and sometimes universities, to support some of these indoor agriculture or agriculture in a container in the north.

There would be a range of programs. I think that the Northern Economic Development Agency might have some, but we work with provinces to deliver through our Canadian agricultural partnership supports for these kinds of businesses. There would also be our own federal programming within Agriculture and Agri-Food, the biggest one being the AgriInnovate program, and there may be others.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Is there policy direction on that to support the innovation sector?

[Chris Forbes]

Yes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

That's great.

My follow-up question is with regard to the indigenous communities.

I see there was mention of results showing the “considerable variation in price increases and decreases across food items and communities. For example, in 13 of the eligible communities, more than half of the subsidized food items we examined increased in cost when the higher subsidy rates applied, while in 9 other communities, more than half of the food items decreased in price.”

Why is that? I find it very interesting.

For some communities, after the subsidy kicked in, some prices went up and some went down. Why is that?

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

I'm happy to speak to that.

Not necessarily everybody knows that when you're standing in Alert, Nunavut, you are closer to Ukraine than you are to Toronto. The issue of the distances, and the differences of where you get supply from and what it costs to travel there, make for enormous differences in price and so they don't all rise uniformly.

What we do know is if that we didn't have the subsidies, the prices would have increased even further, but there are many factors—transportation costs, supply issues and issues related directly to the retailers—that make a big difference. Again, we are doing this across vast distances.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Tying this back to my previous question, if there were a technology drop, a container that is self-sufficient and solar-powered, and with a very limited need for water for irrigation, do you think this kind of technology would actually help to reduce the price of vegetables and fruit up north?

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

I'm convinced that if any people in the country can figure it out, it's northerners who can. They have a great incentive to do so and I'm sure they would find a way.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I strongly encourage you in your future consultations with the indigenous communities up there to please ask them that question and see where they sit on the technological aspect of the solution.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné, you have the floor again for two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to come back to a question that I had raised with Ms. Leach concerning the sixth organization to receive funding through the program: La Tablée des Chefs.

Can you explain why exactly this organization was chosen?

[Kimberley Leach]

Thank you for the question.

We don't know. We were told that it was the sixth organization to benefit from this program, but if you want to know why that is, you should maybe direct the question to Mr. Forbes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I imagine that one of the criteria for the selection process must be financial strength.

Can Mr. Forbes or Ms. Leach confirm this?

[Chris Forbes]

The six organizations that were chosen all had a network that covered the entire country. Therefore, the fact that they were well‑established organizations with significant networks led to them being chosen. In fact, that allowed for funding or food to reach food banks all across the country.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Okay.

My question dealt more specifically with the financial strength of the organization.

Was that a criterion?

[Chris Forbes]

Yes, of course. I don't have the financial data of each of our partners in front of me, but every time that we sign an agreement with an organization, we look at their financial statements.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

Here is a related question. When we look at the financial statements of La Tablée des Chefs for 2020, we see that this organization received support from the Canada emergency business account program. It received a loan of $40,000, and 25% of that was eligible for loan forgiveness. It seems a bit strange to me that an organization could both receive so‑called emergency funding and also be eligible for such an important program. In my opinion, there is a problem tied either to the allocation of emergency funding or to the program's selection criteria. Organizations aren't supposed to receive both at the same time.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Please provide a very short answer.

[Chris Forbes]

If I recall correctly, the program, which offered a $40,000 loan with $10,000 available for loan forgiveness, targeted all small businesses across the country. I will go back and review the program's eligibility criteria, but nothing seems to indicate that the organization was ineligible for the first program.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.