Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 24th, 2023

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I would like to go back to my earlier questions about the geographic distribution of procurement activities.

Ms. Reza, in your procurement strategy, what is your concept of equity? For instance, is it based on the provinces' payment of taxes to the federal government? If Quebec pays 20%, does it receive 20% of the contracts?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you for the question.

Procurement contracts are awarded following a competitive, open and transparent process. I do not think that procurement contracts are awarded on the basis of ratios or percentages in terms of geographic distribution, but we will of course check that.

I have been the deputy minister for just four weeks. I am sorry, but I will have to check. Mr. Wright and Ms. Garrett, who have a great deal of experience, could provide further details.

[Robert Wright]

Thank you very much for the question.

The procurement process is competitive, but we do try to award government contracts to Canadian companies.

At present, in terms of construction and design sub-contracts, 14 contracts have been awarded to Quebec companies. The contracts are awarded to companies throughout Canada, but since the work is done here, most of the contracts have been awarded to Ontario and Quebec companies. We also try to award contracts to companies from other parts of Canada, and we will continue to do so up until project completion.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to ask another question.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Please be brief.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Okay, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Wright, we know that hazardous materials have been removed. Do you know where those materials were sent and how they will be handled?

[Robert Wright]

I will let Ms. Garrett take that question.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm sorry, but there is only enough time for one of you to answer the question.

[Robert Wright]

Okay.

There are specific sites that accept such materials. They are under provincial control. Right now, I think the sites accepting those materials are in Quebec. They are special sites that have to meet Quebec's rules. We have also used such sites in Ontario.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm sorry, but your time is up.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up on some of the aspects that are taking place in the visitor centre, or the new welcome centre. You know what I'm talking about. In any case, I'll refer to it as the new welcome centre.

The new welcome centre is an addition to the building's overall square footage. You'll see, for example, that it will replace the existing welcome centre that most Canadians, if they visit our capital today, will go through. It will replace directly what we're seeing there with a new visitor centre that will be just below, in a subfloor of Centre Block.

On that development, we spoke in our last round about the GBA+ analysis and about including indigenous perspectives. In terms of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's 94 calls to action, particularly those targeting public institutions and the education of Canadians, do you find that in your role, or at least in the procurement of items and important symbols and designs, you have incorporated aspects of some of the calls to action, particularly the ones outlined in the section on education, and 13 to 50?

[Arianne Reza]

It's an excellent question. We have been working very hard with our indigenous partners and some of the GBA+ broader community to look at the welcome centre and the visitor centre, which are two separate things, to make sure that those elements are properly integrated.

I know—and we'll hear from Rob in a moment—that there is actually work with the Dominion Sculptor so that we have indigenous sculptures. To this point, of bringing that in, that supports some of the recommendations you were referring to.

I don't know if that's sufficient. Rob could add more.

[Robert Wright]

Maybe I'll just add a couple of items to what Deputy Reza indicated.

There is one thing I'd adjust a little. It won't replace phase one of the visitor welcome centre. That was always phase one. This will add on, so it will be interconnected: Centre Block, West Block and East Block will be all interconnected as one facility.

As the deputy indicated, the design team is working with indigenous architects. We're working with indigenous communities, as well as looking at the fellowship program of bringing on indigenous carvers. That is resulting in some interesting concepts that will come to Parliament around having appropriate indigenous elements into the Parliament welcome centre, which I think could prove quite exciting.

We've also worked in supporting Heritage Canada and a survivor steering committee for the selection of the residential school monument that will be located on Parliament Hill as well.

There are a host of activities that we're working on to help ensure that these calls to action are responded to.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

I am now going back to Mr. Nater.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Again, thank you to our witnesses.

I probably have a bit of a hodgepodge of questions in this round, but I want to start with our friends from Public Works.

In a previous question, I think from Madame Sinclair-Desgagné, you mentioned that some of the bells in the carillon are now in the Netherlands being restored, or at least some are still here and some are over there. I have a question on that. We know that the carillonneur did continue to perform for a period of time while deconstruction was happening. Is there any possibility that the carillon will begin to operate prior to 2031, give or take, or is it likely that's going to be happening when the building reopens? Is there any chance the bells could begin to sound prior to 2031?

[Jennifer Garrett, Director General, Centre Block Program, Science and Parliamentary Infrastructure Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

We did have the carillonneur. She went in with her safety gear and continued until we had to commence demolition activities within the Peace Tower.

At this point, based on our schedule, we'll try to get her—or the carillonneur who will be in place at that time—back in place to play the bells as soon as possible, because we understand the importance. But at this time, we can't promise that she'll be back playing the bells before the 2031 time frame.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you for that. I think we're all looking forward to that, so whenever that happens it will be good.

I want to turn a little bit to the concept of heritage and heritage preservation. During our tour last week, we talked about high-heritage places versus those areas that had limited heritage value, if any, so I have a couple of questions on that. What is being done to work on those high-heritage locations to preserve those?

The second question is, where and how are things being restored? In our conversation last week, you mentioned what it looked like when we left in 2018 or early 2019 versus what it looked like in the early times of Centre Block as it was being built after the great fire of 1916. How is that being addressed in terms of how it will be restored? Will it look the way it did when we left in 2019, or will there be some efforts made to restore it to the original state of the building after the fire?

[Robert Wright]

Thank you very much for the question.

The heritage restoration of Centre Block is certainly at the heart of the work that's going on. That needs to be done in balance with a whole host of other elements, like universal accessibility, sustainability, security and all of the functional requirements, but it remains at the core.

As you mentioned, there's high-heritage space. There are 50 high-heritage spaces within Centre Block and about 22,000 heritage assets. That can sometimes be a one-off like the heritage ceiling of the chambers, or it can be the 53 bells in the Peace Tower that we mentioned, or it can be the 35,000 marble tiles that are in the building. There's a broad range of those heritage assets and they all have a specific conservation strategy. Many are removed from the building to be restored off-site, but much remains in the building, protected, and will be restored on site.

To your point about 2019 versus the earlier eras of the building, certainly in some of the high-heritage spaces the conservators have found that some of the earlier, very beautiful work was covered up, sometimes by paint, because things were getting a little old. Parliament has to continue operating and there are only very short time periods, like breaks over the holidays or the summer, so sometimes paint would be applied on top of that. They have gone in behind and scraped that away. Part of the strategy, in many cases, is to actually take it back to its original design intent.

We often get the question of whether we are going to protect the heritage as it was in 2019. As I said to you last week, the answer is kind of “yes and no”. Where appropriate, sometimes we're going to try to take that back to its original intent from the 1920s—almost 100 years ago.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you.

I have about 30 seconds for my last question.

You mentioned a couple of times the hazardous material and the abatement. Would you be able to share with the committee how much of that has been completed and how much has actually been removed from the building?

[Robert Wright]

Absolutely. We are getting close to the completion of the interior demolition and abatement. We're above 95% complete at this point. That has entailed the removal of about 25 million pounds of asbestos-containing material from the building.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

That is Mr. Nater's time.

Ms. Khalid, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our officials for being here today and for answering our questions.

I have been looking at the modernization of Commonwealth Parliaments, not just here in Canada, but across the world, in my role as Commonwealth vice-chair for the Canadian branch.

We recently had a seminar in the Ontario legislature where we saw some of their adaptations for what an inclusive Parliament looks like. There's that whole question of maintaining tradition and modernization and where we are on that spectrum. I'm not sure if any of you have seen what the Ontario legislature's adaptation of indigenous artwork, for example, has been.

I'm wondering if that is something we're considering for Centre Block in terms of the whole rehabilitation. I know you've had consultations with indigenous communities and with Heritage, but I'm wondering if there's a concrete plan going forward with regard to that.

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you very much for the question.

It's almost twofold in terms of looking across other parliamentary precincts and seeing how they're managing major rehabilitation. I think Canada is considered a world leader in this, so that is one thing we should be aware of.

In other Parliaments, we've seen that their attempt to fuse, as you say, some of the traditions with accessibility, universal design and important cultural elements is ongoing. We heard Mr. Wright talk about doors earlier. Doors are often an area of heritage value. You go through a significant entrance and you're walking into Parliament, but there is a huge tech aspect to it and a huge universal aspect to it.

When it comes to the ongoing discussions we're having with indigenous community stakeholders and that overall plan, I can turn to Mr. Wright to provide a bit more information on how that's shaping up.

[Robert Wright]

As Ms. Reza indicated, we do work with an international network of other Parliaments, and we've been working quite closely with the Ontario legislature. They've made several site visits to Centre Block. We definitely are considering, more than considering.... We're working through those plans to take a very similar approach hand in hand with Parliament.

For example, our dominion sculptor team is working very closely with the curators of the House and the Senate to come up with a strategy where art and architecture will come together. The Parliament welcome centre, specifically, provides a fresh canvas to tell the ongoing story of Canada, as was the original intent of Centre Block—to continue to tell the story of Canada. Much of the carving that was done in Centre Block was done between the 1930s and the 1980s, not in the initial stages. There's a strong tradition within Parliament to provide the opportunity to continue telling the story of our country so that is it future-focused.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you so much for that.

In terms of the costs and who the artists will be, how is that artwork going to be selected to ensure inclusivity?