Public Accounts Committee on March 11th, 2026

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I think that's a really key thing. Is it $1,000? Is it $1 million? Is it $100,000? The government is going to be faced with spending a considerable amount of money to make this happen: to do the analysis, the development and the implementation and to maintain it on an ongoing basis. It would be helpful, I think, to have some idea of what that would be.

Failing that, certainly private members' bills—all bills—need royal assent if they're going to require the government to spend money. I would encourage the proponent to seek that, if he hasn't done so already.

Those were my questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to begin by thanking the witnesses for joining us today to discuss this bill.

Ms. Boudens, how many businesses would fall under the scope of the act based on the $1 million threshold that has been set?

[Jennifer Boudens]

Thank you for the question.

With respect to corporations that have had tax debt writeoffs of over $1 million, I'm sorry, but I can only speak to CRA's tax debt writeoffs. I can't speak to total writeoffs. That's the public accounts for other departments.

In looking at the CRA, on average—this is an estimate, because some of the accounts would require more details and more information to confirm that these are in fact corporate debts—over the last seven fiscal years, the number of writeoffs that exceeded the $1-million threshold was approximately 215 accounts per year.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That's a lot.

Would you have the details broken down by amount?

If the bill had set the amount at $250,000, the number would be higher.

Do you have that data?

[Jennifer Boudens]

Yes.

At $250,000, it would be over 1,400 accounts.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That's still a lot of money.

Do you have the data on what would have happened if the bill had set the amount at $5 million or $10 million?

[Jennifer Boudens]

I have the information for an amount of $5 million, but not for $10 million.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Okay.

How many accounts would be involved if the amount was $5 million?

[Jennifer Boudens]

For an amount of $5 million, it would be about 37 accounts.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That's still a lot of money. Given these amounts, one would almost think that this is a new program, like Cúram.

According to volume III, section 2 of the Public Accounts of Canada, there is a total of $7 billion in taxes on bad debt, an additional $7 billion in goods and services tax, and $1 billion in other taxes, such as immigration or excise tax.

This section does not provide any further details. Obviously, that's a huge amount of money.

At what point do you think a debt should be made public?

[Jennifer Boudens]

Debts are written off after the collections officers have taken all the steps necessary to verify whether or not the debt is collectible. As my colleague mentioned earlier, there are debt writeoff regulations. In our collections and verification branch, they follow those regulations and take all the steps possible in determining whether or not the amounts are collectible. At such point where they determine they are no longer collectible, they are put forward for writeoff and approved at the appropriate levels.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In 2024, The Globe and Mail published an article that showed that 11 companies benefited from a debt writeoff or forgiveness by the CRA, to the tune of $1.25 billion. In 2023, $1 billion of the $5 billion in debt writeoffs benefited only five companies.

I'd like to ask you the question again. Why is there a refusal to name these companies?

By hiding behind a law that maintains anonymity, aren't we setting ourselves up to repeat history and, ultimately, to favour those who don't pay their debts over honest taxpayers?

[Jennifer Boudens]

My apologies, I am not an expert in the privacy regulations and the acts that led to the decision not to disclose those amounts, so I'm unable to speak to the reasons why.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I thought there was someone from the legal field among you.

Ms. Brault, you're the director general of the legislative policy and regulatory affairs branch.

Can you tell us more about the legal aspect of this matter?

[Isabelle Brault, Director General, Legislative Policy Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency]

Thank you for your question.

We are not authorized to provide legal advice to this committee or to comment on the adequacy of legislation passed by Parliament. Section 241 of the Income Tax Act prevents us from disclosing information that would identify the taxpayer in question.

Unfortunately, we won't be able to give you more details on that today.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Would the passage of Bill C‑230 give you additional powers to provide Quebeckers and Canadians with more transparency?

[Isabelle Brault]

This would involve providing you with a legal opinion on the interpretation of this bill, which is not currently part of our legislative and regulatory framework. We don't administer it at this time, so I'm not authorized to give you legal advice on this matter.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I accept your answer, but I still thought it was important to ask the question.

The case of Chrysler and General Motors are obviously interesting examples. After bailing out these two major American companies, the government wrote off their $2.6‑billion debt. This decision was mentioned in just a single line in the public accounts, and there was no explanation or identification of the companies. There was no justification for the loss to taxpayers.

How can taxpayers have confidence in the system when they see large companies benefiting from such writeoffs?

Of course, in Quebec, there are examples of companies, such as Northvolt, that have been involved in major scandals. They were identified, and there were repercussions.

If the people involved are not named, how do we learn from mistakes to avoid repeating them?

[John Daley]

Thank you for the question.

I can begin to answer it. Then I'll turn the floor over to Ms. Brault.

What we could speak to, in terms of what was in the public accounts.... Yes, there was approximately $2.6 billion in loans to Chrysler and General Motors, which were recorded in the 2018 public accounts as writeoffs.

I would say, from my interpretation of this bill, that if this bill was to be implemented, those names would be disclosed, but I'll pass it to my colleagues to see if there are further questions or comments.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you for joining us and answering our questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Give a short answer, please.

[Isabelle Brault]

I have nothing to add.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Thank you.

For the second round, we have Monsieur Deltell.

Mr. Deltell, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Allow me to congratulate you on your French. I greatly appreciate all the efforts you are making to learn both official languages.

Colleagues, it's good to see you.

Witnesses, thank you very much for being here with us. Thank you for your service to our country.

As you know, on our side, we support Bill C‑230, which was introduced by Mr. Chambers. This actually should have been done a long time ago. It's a very good idea.

Over the past 10 years, has there been an increase in the number of agreements like these? Generally speaking, year after year, have the number of agreements and the amounts remained roughly the same?

Have there been any variations over the past 10 years?