Public Accounts Committee on April 13th, 2026

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear, NL]

Thank you.

Can you elaborate and share the data on the current number of Canadian Armed Forces members who reside on base, who reside off base in CAF housing and who reside in housing that is not owned and operated by the CAF?

[Christiane Fox]

The data we have currently is that about 60% of CAF members do not use CAF housing, about 16% do and about 4% are in quarters—so they would be in training. The percentage of members who use a form of CAF housing would be about 20%.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear, NL]

Some of your members perhaps want to stay on base, and others would prefer to look for private accommodations. We understand that. However, with the increase in pay for our women and men who serve in the Canadian Armed Forces, has there been a noticeable difference in the affordability of housing for these members when looking for accommodations outside of those supplied by the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Christiane Fox]

Definitely. By increasing both the allowances and the pay, and with a lot of the benefits package that was announced, members are well positioned to compete in the housing industry to purchase their home outside a base, should they choose not to live on the base. I think we're seeing an ability to access the market as a result of the increase in pay.

I don't know if Lieutenant-General Simoneau would like to add something.

[LGen Erick Simoneau, Chief of Military Personnel, Department of National Defence]

I can add that we heard earlier of a waiting list of 6,700. At the time of the OAG report, the waiting list was 3,700. As of recently, it's 1,200, so we see a clear decrease in the number of people waiting for residential housing units.

Now, with that being said, it would be premature to make a direct link between this number and the salary increase, the new posting allowance and the military service pay because some of those initiatives have yet to be implemented, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Meeting the demand—you heard the number 10,000 earlier—hinges on stable and predictable funding, which we now have, so the gap will be closed by the two officials here.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear, NL]

I have time for a small question, I'm told by the chair.

In the application process, when does the application come out of the queue? Is it when a member removes the application for housing through the Canadian Armed Forces?

In other words, could you clarify the accuracy of the number of people on the list? If members have to remove their application from the list, but they have acquired suitable housing, is it possible that your waiting list number is in fact higher than the actual number?

[Paola Zurro]

Usually, the members stay on the wait-list until they notify the agency that they do not need housing anymore. We also, with my site offices, try to reach out to members to see if the wait-list is accurate, but it is a work in progress. We are trying to update it, but I cannot tell you necessarily how much of the wait-list is accurate at this point if the agency has not been notified.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Osborne. When members are on a roll, I try to give them time if they have a few extra seconds remaining, which you did, but I appreciate it. The time might come when I'm forced to be a little closer to the clock, but we're not there yet.

Mr. Lemire for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Under the circumstances, I would like to extend a special thank you to the technical and interpretation teams.

My first question is for Ms. Hogan.

First, thank you for your report. Thank you for highlighting situations that, without your work, would remain hidden.

According to your report, the assessment of the Canadian Armed Forces’ needs is completely inadequate. One of the things that shocks me is the fact that the analysis of local housing markets was based on the 2011 national household survey, which is over 10 years old. Obviously, since then, rent prices have skyrocketed across Canada.

In your report, you write: “In addition, there have been changes to compensation and benefits paid to members since 2019, which could impact the ability of members to find suitable housing in local markets.”

If I understand correctly, our military personnel receive financial assistance to find housing, at least since 2023. In your opinion, is this assistance adapted to market realities?

[Karen Hogan]

I must admit that our audit did not focus on this key element. However, we did examine whether the Canadian Armed Forces provided support to its members, and we found that housing costs were capped at 25% of an individual’s income. So, yes, the market will have an impact. We found that the information used to assess needs was outdated. The compensation data was from 2019 and the market data from 2011. When you use outdated data, needs are bound to be underestimated. We therefore made recommendations for the Canadian Armed Forces to improve their needs assessment.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Fox, thank you for joining us today to help us get to the bottom of this issue.

Were you surprised when the Auditor General told you that 32 of the 35 quarter buildings inspected needed a high-priority repair? What immediate actions did you take?

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you for your question.

When the report was released in October, I was serving in the Privy Council Office, but I took note of the report and its findings. When I joined the department, I spent time with the team from the very beginning to better understand the complexities of housing, the department’s action plan, and how we would implement the Auditor General’s recommendations.

It is a challenge, given the urgency with which we must act in this context. We are trying to be creative and recognize that we need new housing, but it’s clear that we need temporary solutions as well as investments to renovate the housing we currently have.

I would also say that having a rigorous inspection system is extremely important. We need the governance and tools necessary to ensure ongoing inspections.

So, indeed, the team is fully aware of the importance of housing for our military personnel. We will continue to work on this over the coming weeks and months. Beyond that, there are many activities and discussions with the industry, which must be our partner. Even today, there is a series of virtual meetings to advance housing projects across the country.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

In Quebec, an infrastructure assessment system has been implemented to monitor, for example, road conditions, which can obviously be affected by freezing and thawing.

Do you have a dashboard or document that makes it easy to identify infrastructure maintenance deficits and plan for the future?

Next, could you send us an update on the current condition of the 32 quarter buildings requiring repairs out of the 35 that were inspected? You could also send us information on the other three, since their condition may have worsened since then and they may also require high-priority repairs.

[Christiane Fox]

It is certainly important to maintain inventories to track and better understand the condition of each building—including those assessed by the Auditor General—and of all infrastructure under the Department of National Defence. Indeed, we need rigour, data and systems that allow us to regularly report on the progress made. DND is committed to producing very detailed reports on the necessary progress.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would obviously like to have that information.

Similarly, the Auditor General’s report mentions 205 available units and 3,706 applicants.

Can you tell us what the current situation is and provide that information to the committee?

[Christiane Fox]

To answer your question, yes, we can provide the committee with that information.

I will let Ms. Zurro speak to you about current needs.

[Paola Zurro]

Thank you, Ms. Fox.

As Lieutenant General Simoneau mentioned, current needs vary because our waiting list fluctuates constantly in the spring and summer. We typically receive a large number of requests during this time, as it is when Canadian Armed Forces members are being transferred across the country. Starting in the fall, the list stabilizes.

The latest data indicates that nearly 1,300 people are set to be transferred and are still on the national waiting list. There are even more who have housing in the local market and would like access to military housing. This is what we call priority level 3. As for priority levels 1 and 2, they are assigned to members who apply after being transferred and who must relocate elsewhere in the country. This is our top priority.

Currently, as previously mentioned, we are working very hard to expand the Canadian Forces Housing Agency’s portfolio, and we publish our plans annually. We publish an annual report that details our finances and the distribution of our funds, as well as our projects—that is, what we’ve accomplished over the past year and what’s coming up.

The last fiscal year has just ended, and we’re currently preparing our report. I encourage you to take a look at it, as it contains all the information on renovation projects, acquisitions, and the portfolio, as well as how we spend the funds. Most of the funds—84%—are reinvested in the housing portfolio.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

We'll now begin our second round, which consists of five members for various times.

Mr. Deltell for five minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to my fellow members.

Welcome to your parliamentary committee, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to say a special hello to General Simoneau, who is from the Quebec City area and has served his country well, including as commander of a tactical helicopter unit in war zones in Haiti, Kosovo and Afghanistan. Thank you very much.

General, through you, I would like to recognize all the men and women in uniform serving their country, be it in the army, navy or air force. They put their lives on the line, and that is why we feel so strongly when we read such a scathing report, one that points to a lack of respect for our men and women in uniform and especially their families. We are talking about housing. These people put their lives at risk, and when they come home—they can hardly be called homes the spaces are so cramped.

Ms. Fox, how is it that, in 2026, our soldiers don't have access to running water where they live?

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you for your question.

We absolutely recognize the enormity of the challenge. We have to make sure that armed forces members have housing. It's essential that we deal with the important issues you raised through a comprehensive approach. We have to focus on housing improvements and availability, but we also have to focus on child care and compensation, among other things. We are really looking at the full range of services and speeding up approvals for housing construction and renovations. We urgently have to address the deficiencies the Auditor General identified in her report.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Deputy Minister, how did things get to this point? This isn't something new. We're talking about our military housing. It's not something that started two weeks ago. This goes back decades. How did the situation get this bad?

In her report, Ms. Hogan said that only two out of 40 high-priority repairs had been completed. That means that when a member of the military comes home from the battlefield, where they were defending their country, there is a 90% chance that their home is in need of repair, and the same is true for their family.

Why was this allowed to drag on for so many years?

[Christiane Fox]

The department's action plan shows that we are taking the matter seriously. We have the necessary funding to fix the problems that emerged long ago, as you pointed out. Today, we have the funding to move forward and support Canadian Armed Forces members. That is absolutely part of our plan.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

To look ahead is a very good thing. As we know, the government has been boasting about what it calls its biggest defence budget ever. That's fine, but they've been in power for a decade.

Let's look solely at the needs assessment. We all know that housing needs are soaring across the country and that we have a housing problem. How is it that the Canadian Army was using data from 2011 to assess its housing needs?

What happened during the past 10 years to put us in this mess?

[Christiane Fox]

There were systems in place in recent years, but they weren't stringent enough to meet the requirements. That's why we are fixing the processes, we are implementing an action plan, and we have the necessary funding. In the past, the department probably had to make choices about which investments to make, and those choices may not have addressed all the needs across the country. Now, investments are being made for members of the military, and it's up to us to do the work and improve the housing situation across the country.