Public Accounts Committee on April 13th, 2026

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Things can't get worse, that's for sure.

General, you work alongside the men and women in the air force every day and you're in contact with army people. You were at Valcartier. Yes, there are people in the air force, but there are also people in the army.

In your various roles, what problems have you observed these last 10 years? Obviously, you're a high-ranking member of the armed forces, and we are very proud. What stories have our army, navy and air force personnel shared with you about their housing problems?

[LGen Erick Simoneau]

Thank you for your question.

The Canadian Armed Forces, as the force of last resort, and the department will always prioritize operations, whether at home or abroad, to ensure Canadians are well supported. Oftentimes, that's done on the backs of our members when we're constrained by budget.

Right now, the reason we need to invest in housing is that we move many of our members and their families within Canada and elsewhere in the world. I was in contact with families, and I still am.

Having to move all the time makes it tough for families to make any money when they sell their home. They often have to sell it too soon, before it's gone up in value, regardless of any renovations they may have done. Then there's the problem of finding child care, as was mentioned earlier. In the early days of a deployment, families often have to make decisions involving thousands of dollars, such as buying a home—on a single salary, no less, because a second salary isn't guaranteed, especially at the beginning of a posting.

That makes it somewhat of a unique situation, and that's why it's important to give members flexibility. Of the 10,000 housing units you heard about, 7,500 are new construction and 2,500 are rental options in local markets. That will put money back into local markets. It's a very positive step, and I think our members are happy about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Up next is Ms. Yip.

You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We are very thankful for the service and sacrifice of Canadian Armed Forces members, which is why the report is so important.

My first question is for Lieutenant-General Simoneau.

You were talking about some of the unique needs of the military service. Could you expand more on this, given that they must be ready to move to any location they are going to? What is being done to make it easier?

[LGen Erick Simoneau]

Thank you for the question.

I will break it into two buckets, if you will. We've been discussing the residential housing units, which are for members and their families. As I mentioned earlier, this hinges on the fact that when decisions are taken for a rotation, people need to plan for single-income family levels, and therefore the availability of housing is really important.

I would also like to bring up the fact that as we grow the Canadian Armed Forces, contrary to what is perceived from social media and the public domain, we are attracting people to our doors. We had some issues in processing them, which we're ironing out and working through as we speak.

However, my real limiting factor in growing the Canadian Armed Forces right now is the second bucket of units. It's the duty quarters. I need beds. I need bed space and quarters to host basic training in Saint-Jean and Borden, for example.

Addressing this requirement is very well done. My colleague Mr. Hammerschmidt is working on replicating half the big megastructure you see in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu in another form in Borden, for example, and that's only for basic training. If we don't invest in duty quarters, we won't be able to grow the CAF, but that's being addressed.

I wanted to make sure that I addressed both buckets of requirements.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Ms. Fox, given that the armed forces are in the process of adding 6,300 members, will the acceleration of the housing strategy be enough?

[Christiane Fox]

That's exactly why we need flexibility, and the strategy we've deployed is very much that we can't lose our sight and our focus on the new builds—the 7,500 units—but we also have to think creatively about how we are going to supplement that. This means purchasing commercial units to offer more military housing options; it means looking at a continuous evolvement of our recruitment plans, when we see the increase and how we match it to need.

I also think we have to be creative around modular housing and other types of innovations to move faster. Yes, the plan is in lockstep, and we work together very closely in asking, as we grow the military, what the housing stock looks like and how we can use creative techniques to make sure we meet the demand.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What are some of the creative techniques you're using with the private partnerships?

[Christiane Fox]

These alternative solutions are really for looking at those partnerships for residential units. I mentioned Esquimalt. We have 37 units there and 140 in Dartmouth. We are looking at how DND can advance procurement in order to access and get on the market. The partnerships allow us to offer more immediate housing options and relieve some of the pressure.

We talk about Yellowknife and Masset. These are sites we're pursuing across the country. We've deployed in these locations, but we're looking at other locations to see how we can meet the demand as it comes in.

It won't necessarily be limited to what we're presenting today, but these are what we've advanced so far.

I'm not sure if you want to add anything, Paola.

[Paola Zurro]

Yes. I would add the dual-use pathfinder announced in budget 2024. The department is going to be using underutilized land to leverage the private sector to build housing for Canadian Armed Forces members and Canadians.

Three locations were announced: Toronto, Esquimalt and Halifax. We are getting ready to leverage. We've already hired brokers to work with industry for the private sector to build, operate and maintain all the houses. There will be more progress soon on that front.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

That is your time, Ms. Yip.

We now go to Mr. Lemire for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Fox, I'd like to talk about the situation in Quebec City. In Valcartier, the municipality welcomes the housing construction, but expanding services is a problem for the municipality of Shannon. Last month, Sarah Perrault, the mayor, reported that the real estate assessment of the military base was 7% below the value assessed by the city.

How do you explain the difference between your department's assessment and the city's, and are you going to try to fix the problem?

[Christiane Fox]

Yes, we are working closely with the municipality. Ms. Zurro can provide more information on that.

[Paola Zurro]

If I understand the question correctly, you're asking about the assessment of our buildings and the difference between military housing and city housing. Is that right?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

No, I was really asking about the property assessment. I want to know about the difference between the number the municipality of Shannon was expecting from the Canadian Armed Forces and what you actually pay.

[Paola Zurro]

It's still too soon to give a number, because we're starting the planning for the thousand or so housing units that are going to be built. We don't have the plans or drawings yet, but we will definitely keep working with the municipality once we have the plans. We will also work to support the municipality.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you. We wouldn't want it to have negative repercussions obviously, because municipalities already have enough challenges to deal with.

Would it be possible to get a breakdown, by province and by base, of how much you've allocated to housing maintenance and renovations in your new plan? Specifically, I'd like to know the condition of military base housing in Quebec. You can send us that in writing.

Ms. Fox, you recently announced that you were building one- and two-bedroom apartments, but I'd like to know how you did the needs analysis. Who did the assessment? Does it take into account the push to recruit more personnel? Are we necessarily talking about single young people? Might older people be interested?

Could you provide that analysis to the committee, as well as the current housing stock needs?

[Christiane Fox]

Yes. That's a very good question. We use tools and an assessment mechanism to determine what the current requirements are. We need a variety of options, of course, but we look at the data for the past five years and we look at the profiles of recruits to determine what's needed. We can send the committee more information on that, but we do have a methodology.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Up next, we have Mr. Kuruc. You have the floor for approximately five minutes.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you all for coming today. I appreciate your attendance.

Ms. Fox, I want to turn back to you. You mentioned the ethics report. In your answer to my colleague and in some of the reports I've read since Friday, you haven't really acknowledged any wrongdoing or errors. Is this because you believe your conduct was in line with the government's diversity, equity and inclusion guidelines in the federal public service?

[Christiane Fox]

As I noted earlier, I'm taking this extremely seriously. I believe I had genuine intentions, but as a leader, I am reflecting heavily on the way I make a change and how this is as important as the change itself.

The totality of my actions when it comes to diversity and inclusion is well beyond this particular context. In every job I've held, I've put diversity at the forefront of what I do. I've put together systemic changes, such as including the call to action in executives' performance management agreements, promoting talent and looking at data within the department to identify gaps and challenges.

Some of the departments I've worked in, such as Indigenous Services Canada and Immigration, have had systemic barriers and resistance to change.

As a leader, I genuinely believe in these issues. It is important to lead by example. I have to reflect on the impacts of my decisions. I am taking this enormously seriously.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That's fair enough. Thank you for the answer.

This specific person couldn't speak French. They were unfamiliar with software. They had no experience in government and lacked expertise. Again, you still haven't acknowledged any wrongdoing or any errors in judgment.

You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but I find it very concerning, because now you're in a portfolio where we need to move things forward. We're here to collaborate on that. Your answer to my colleague was a bit jarring, because you used the word “continue”. Your answer was quite fine there, but again, if you don't acknowledge any wrongdoing or errors, the Canadian public is going to want to know how you will move forward.

[Christiane Fox]

An individual I went to university with 25 years ago reached out with a genuine interest in joining the federal public service. The ADM responsible for the program had asked me to share CVs that came in for this particular unit. The individual had experience in client service, which is something the government struggles with. We don't do client service particularly well, and in this unit, it was obvious that we didn't. As I looked at the interest and the gap, and as I looked at the data we had in our departments about the experiences of Black men, I decided to refer the person, as requested.

I have to reflect on the actions in this particular context, of course. I have to think about the role I occupy and whether it's best to administer change differently, but this was a context of trying to change an underperforming unit within the department that occupied a lot of my attention.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That's fair enough, but the person couldn't speak French. For service and communications, this is a key factor on the Hill.

I will leave it at that. Thank you very much.

I'm good, Mr. Chair. Thank you.