Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 7th, 2025

[Stefanie Beck]

Absolutely. Investments will be announced not only for the Royal Canadian Air Force, but also for other divisions of the forces. It depends on the need to be met. There are drones that can carry heavy cargoes over long distances, while others are used to deliver things in close proximity very quickly.

Actually, there is one more thing. We will, later this month or in November, have a drone exercise in urban Ottawa, so you will be able to see them. We'll give you warning, and, of course, Transport Canada is aware. This will be a test of all kinds of drones in downtown Ottawa, to see what there might be that we might need to purchase.

Beyond that, we are doing research and inviting other countries to come and show us what they have in terms of all the different kinds of drones, and we also do research in Halifax Harbour, on underwater drones.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

I don't need to tell you that we're very interested in what comes next, particularly because, in our opinion, it must be done here in Canada.

[Stefanie Beck]

There's a lot of expertise.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

We have a golden opportunity to develop expertise, and we know that we have very good expertise in this area.

Before concluding, I'd like to come back to a very important point raised in Ms. Hogan's report, namely the shortage of qualified pilots. That was the case in 2018, and it's still true six years later.

Lieutenant-General, do you think we're technically ready? Ms. Hogan mentioned that, when the planes are ready, it's still not entirely certain that there will be enough pilots. What's your reading of the situation?

[LGen Jamie Speiser-Blanchet]

Thank you for the question.

That's something we're working on very deliberately. We're making changes to training, and planning to replace our training fleets so that we can train more pilots. We're expanding. Indeed, since 2018, we've seen that a number of our initiatives have helped to increase the number of pilots. We're talking about recruiting more pilots, but also about implementing initiatives to retain experienced people, which is very important. This will involve continuing to implement our plans as well as continuing to assess and verify conditions annually.

When we set up our F‑35 personnel, we'll be able to judge how operational we are based on the number of people we have. Right now, we're optimistic about rebuilding our workforce. To what extent will that be done? I'll have to continue working on that. We also work with maintenance people.

We've also heard that there will be a need to expand the support capacity, so intelligence and planning for missions, as well as the security forces, which we talked about. So there are a number of areas where we're increasing our strength, and the fairly recent announcement of investment in defence and the Canadian Armed Forces allows us to make plans for growth.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Beck, I'd like to quickly talk about the Bagotville military base. In January 2023, during an interview with the Kick FM radio station, former minister of national defence Anita Anand estimated that the work in Bagotville would cost $500 million. However, the work was launched on August 12, 2024, with an investment of only $120 million.

How do you explain this discrepancy?

[Stefanie Beck]

This is just the beginning of the project, that's all. There's nothing extraordinary about that. We don't pay for everything the first year, of course. We pay as we go.

Mr. Hammerschmidt could add some details, because this is a complex project.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Since we know that there will be delays, why did the government not accelerate investments at the outset?

[Peter Hammerschmidt]

To date, we've spent $125 million on the Bagotville military base. We've committed $319 million to develop the temporary rapid response area in Bagotville, and we're also beginning construction on facilities for the future fighter fleet.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

On another note, National Defence will have to defend the north. Obviously, the sovereignty of the Arctic is a very important issue, and we have to show our presence.

Since we won't necessarily be able to store all the equipment in one place, we'd have to find a place that experiences winter conditions. The region I represent, Abitibi-Témiscamingue, has a strategic position for that, in addition to having many mining companies.

In a context where National Defence must increase its investments, but also improve its recruitment, training, or conduct rescue operations, I believe that Abitibi-Témiscamingue has an important role to play.

How could regions like mine contribute more to National Defence?

[Stefanie Beck]

We're always pleased to have much more assistance in the regions, especially in the north. We're in the process of looking at different locations for operational support hubs in the north.

We've chosen Iqaluit, Inuvik and Yellowknife to host those hubs, and we're looking for two more cities that will unfortunately be farther north than Abitibi-Témiscamingue.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Interoperability is nevertheless important, and we need to have places where we can pass a trans-Canada highway and rail tracks, to supply the north. I'm telling you that in passing.

[Stefanie Beck]

We'll keep that in mind.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

All right.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Osborne, you'll take us out for five minutes, please.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I guess this is for the deputy.

The Auditor General found that National Defence was more reactive than proactive in terms of risk management. Effective planning and risk management are paramount, especially as we see the geopolitical...and the risks.

Can you talk about the improvements you've put in place so that you become more proactive?

[Stefanie Beck]

I think the Auditor General is exactly right. The department has traditionally been very risk-averse and very controlled in decision-making and in purposeful spending. That is largely because of the constraints around the operating capabilities of the department in terms of resources. There are not enough people and there is not enough money.

This has changed. With that, it has become necessary to shift significantly how we evaluate and manage risk, and then how we mitigate what the different risks are. Layered on top of that is what you mentioned: The geopolitical situation has changed. We are in a different world from the one we were in even three or four years ago, or prepandemic.

This has meant an entire shift in the whole conversation in the department—with the military as well as with civilians. I would even go so far as to add our colleagues around town, because we have to take a completely different lens to the future of the Department of National Defence and of the CAF now, with funding that we can see coming for decades at a much higher level than was the case before.

We are going to be relying not only on our existing partners. For instance, the creation of the new Defence Investment Agency is going to help us manage that risk. It's going to help us deliver projects and programs much faster than has been the case to date.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear, NL]

Thank you. You led perfectly into my next question.

This is probably more for the lieutenant-general. The commitment of the Prime Minister and of Canada to meet NATO spending targets of 2%, 3.5% and 5% presents tremendous opportunity and excitement, I would say, for you. At the same time, the risks to our sovereignty and the tensions globally create additional challenges.

Looking at the national defence industrial strategy, for example, can we talk about what that means for Canada's economy and for Canada's workforce? What are the benefits to Canada and to our forces with the increased spending?

What does the future look like?

[Stefanie Beck]

I'll pass it over to you in a second.

The defence industrial strategy is in the definition phase right now, to use a military term. We've spoken with over 1,000 people. We've had input from all across the country and have deliberately sought out the views of provinces, territories and first nations communities. We're gathering all that together.

The goal of the strategy will be to increase investment in the defence industry to enable that to happen, with the support not only of the government but of the private sector as well. It's to make sure that the end result is our sovereign capabilities—we were talking about drones earlier—and access to capabilities that we will always need, that we can find at home and that we'll be able to rely on in the future.

We're doing that, of course, in close collaboration with the military, to make sure what we're targeting as sovereign capabilities are the ones they need not just now but in the future as well.

[LGen Jamie Speiser-Blanchet]

Thank you.

I would just maybe add three points that would summarize my view of the way you framed that.

It is an amazing opportunity. We're very grateful for the increased investment. The RCAF has been on a path of modernization. It's the biggest one since the Second World War. We are creating the air and space force that Canada needs, not just now but for decades to come.

With this increased investment, certainly the opportunities to work differently with industry are there. I believe there's a tremendous prospect there. It's also allowing us to fix some of the foundations, because, frankly, there has been a lack of investment over several decades. Infrastructure has been a focus. Digital transformation is a focus. Those are going to allow us to then modernize more effectively.

It's really key, as mentioned, about the risk approach. How we do this is going to be very important. As you mentioned, it is a positive opportunity, but it is also quite challenging. It's important that we spend the money and the investments judiciously, ensure that we have continued value for money, and show and reassure Canadians that this is happening in a positive manner for the sovereignty and safety of Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

If you have a quick follow-up, go ahead, please.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear, NL]

I have one quick follow-up. I know that in addition to Bagotville and Cold Lake, there are several other fighter locations across the country. I know each region is hoping for upgrades and investments, especially as we look at the F-35.

Can you give us some indication of what that would look like for the other locations throughout the country?

[Peter Hammerschmidt]

Certainly, from an infrastructure perspective, there is a lot of focus on Bagotville and Cold Lake. However, as you have mentioned, they are not the only parts of the country. In terms of all of the forward operating locations, we have three of them in the north. Those will be upgraded to a whole range of infrastructure initiatives, including airfield rehabilitation, power grid modernization, runway work and facilities work.

There are also the deployed operating bases that are across the country. I'm going to miss one, I think, but they include Greenwood, Comox, Goose Bay, Winnipeg and Trenton. Those will all receive upgrades, as well.

Beyond that, we have three command centres, in Winnipeg, Ottawa and North Bay. Those too will receive upgrades, particularly for command and control to be able to operate the fighters and other aircraft.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you all very much for the information you provided today. I want to thank everyone for coming in today and being so forthright with your answers. The committee will take this up and decide where we want to go from here. This has been a very good meeting.

Before I excuse everyone and adjourn the meeting, I want to let everyone know that the request for a 10 a.m. start time on Tuesday, October 21, has been approved. On that day, instead of meeting in the afternoon, we will be meeting as Parliament opens, at 10 a.m. We will be meeting with the Auditor General to get her public comments on the report right away. This is standard for this, and it has been approved by the various whips for that to happen.

Without further ado, I'll excuse the witnesses. Thank you very much.

This meeting is adjourned.