Evidence of meeting #17 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
If one had such information, that might be a logical assumption.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I imagine it would have been logical for the head of the RCMP to do so, because that is what he believed — namely that Mr. Arar was innocent with respect to involvement with terrorist organizations.
9:55 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
I can't comment on that. I'm not aware of the information that the RCMP have before them.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Yes, but you do know that Mr. Zaccardelli told us that he was convinced that Mr. Arar was innocent with respect to any involvement with terrorist organizations from the time he reviewed the file, just after Mr. Arar was sent to Syria.
9:55 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
As I said at the beginning, I didn't become aware of that until very recently.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
So you cannot tell us whether you were watching Mr. Arar after November 4, 2003, after he returned to the country.
I would like to ask another question. Now that you know that the information was passed on by the RCMP, are you convinced that there should be a single Canadian body to deal with the intelligence services of other countries?
9:55 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
Mr. Chairman, I'm here with respect to activities at an earlier time. I have a day job as Deputy Minister of National Defence. I'm not a spokesman for CSIS, and it wouldn't be for me to comment on that subject.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON
I know that many Canadians are keenly interested in what has gone on in the Arar affair. It's broken down into four areas: what went on before Mr. Arar arrived in New York, what occurred in New York, what happened when he was transferred to Syria, and what took place when he returned to Canada.
I have been regularly asking questions having to do with what the Americans knew. I know that other members of the committee are now on to that. Commissioner Zaccardelli was less than clear about what the Americans knew and what impact it had on sending Mr. Arar to Syria. Today we've gotten a bit more into it. Our former minister was a bit more definitive. He believed that there had been some investigation by the Americans. Now we're hearing that there was possibly more than that.
I'm going to focus on what information CSIS gave to the RCMP, which then gave information to the U.S. After that, we'll talk a bit about the return to Canada.
Was the phrase “group of Islamic extremist individuals suspected of being linked to the al-Qaeda terrorist movement” used in the CSIS information originally given to the RCMP? What was the basis for that conclusion? Did CSIS know that Arar was being included in that description?
9:55 a.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I guess the shortest and most frank reply is that I do not know the answer to that question.
9:55 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
I'd like to take it a slight step further. I don't think either of us could comment on the information that was shared with the RCMP. It would not be the practice of the service to comment on such information.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON
Was CSIS aware of any of the inaccuracies in the information that was handed over to the RCMP?
9:55 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
As I said, I'm not aware of the issue. The first I became aware of the potential issue of inaccuracies in information was the statement that Mr. Zaccardelli made in public in the last few weeks.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON
After Mr. Arar returned to Canada, information was still being given from the RCMP. I assume they relied somewhat on information from you folks. Some of this information was given to the PCO at the time. Did anyone from CSIS ever question any of the inaccurate information that was moving around from the RCMP to the PCO?
9:55 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
In my time in the organization, I'm not aware of providing inaccurate information to anyone, the RCMP in particular, on this subject. The first I became aware of the possibility of inaccuracies in the information was the commissioner's recent statement.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON
I find it quite extraordinary that this information was still moving around after Mr. Arar had returned to Canada, and that nobody wants to take responsibility for it.
I'm going to move on to what happened upon the return to Canada. Was CSIS privy to any of that RCMP material supplied to PCO? Do you feel that this information is a matter of national security that you don't want to share with this committee?
10 a.m.
Former Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS)
We were focused on the information we would provide to the PCO. I wasn't focused on the information that the RCMP was providing or not providing.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON
All right. We don't seem to be getting too far. I'll let it go at that. Thank you.
10 a.m.
NDP
Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS
I may be unfamiliar with the allocation of questions, but does the NDP not get a further question?
