Evidence of meeting #2 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
We may not even get the officials here on such short notice, on Thursday.
5 p.m.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
I understand that point.
My point is, is this the only opportunity to ask questions of the minister or the ministry?
5 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Mr. Chair, I would say if the officials aren't available Thursday--and we're only trying to do that to get the process started quickly--we'll try to arrange that they be here at the end to answer your technical questions. I think that's appropriate.
5 p.m.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
I think that's actually quite appropriate, so that's why I asked the question and shared the concern. Thank you.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
The other thing was the taser incident. How do you want to handle that, fitting in that around all this? Do you want to do anything on that before Christmas?
5 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I would like to. I'm going to actually present a formal motion to the clerk tomorrow. I have given you notice, essentially, that I'm going to do it, so I don't need to formally give you notice.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
You've been deemed to be notified, although there is no requirement.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Okay. We'll work together on that.
Committee, are we going to try to fit this all in here? What do you feel?
5 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
We may have to have extra sittings. I feel very strongly, and not in a partisan way, that federally we are responsible for the entirety of what goes on at that airport. The provincial government doesn't have an ounce of jurisdiction. We need to deal with it.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
I think you have agreement around the table on that.
Mr. Mayes.
November 20th, 2007 / 5 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Mr. Chair, this is only a suggestion. Rather than be the sixth group looking into this incident, maybe we should take all the recommendations of the five groups and review that. The committee could review all of that, and if there are any deficiencies or questions that are unanswered, review what they have brought forward, rather than starting a sixth study.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
I've been here a long time, since 1993, and I don't want to appear too cynical.
5 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
5 p.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
But I really have to say that in my mind's eye, and long before I came here, I had this little phrase in my head about putting the monkeys in charge of the peanuts.
When the RCMP, or any organization--it has nothing to do with the RCMP per se, but whenever any organization is asked to investigate its own self, and in particular in instances where maybe in the public's mind or in my mind a failure has occurred, I don't put a whole lot of stock in what they say about themselves.
I think it's worth reviewing what those studies turn up, yes, as part of our investigation, but it isn't going to be enough, Mr. Chair, not to get at the truth. As I say, people investigating themselves are inclined, as we all are.... It's human nature to try to put a rosy glow around something that happened, even if it's almost impossible.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm simply basically reinforcing Ms. Brown's comments.
We heard earlier from Mr. Dosanjh that four of the five investigations, in fact those who are doing the investigating directly or indirectly, are involved in investigating themselves. That doesn't inspire confidence. For the one body that seems to be independent, it's really not within their area of jurisdiction.
It would be an abdication of our duties as elected officials, when something goes horribly wrong within our area of jurisdiction, not to at least make an effort to address the situation, especially in these particularly tragic circumstances and especially in an atmosphere in which the RCMP, unfortunately, has caused a great deal of discomfort because of their recent track record.
I sit on the public accounts committee. It took us a while, but we finally unravelled the rigged contracting scheme that three internal investigations--criminal, audit, etc.--didn't get to the bottom of. Fundamentally, what that underlines is that as a committee of Parliament we have the ability to get to the bottom of things that people investigating themselves don't.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Let me tie this together first, Mr. Cannis.
We've had a suggestion here that we should maybe get the reports. Can what you're suggesting wait for this?
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
No. I think that would be abandoning our responsibilities. I think we have an obligation to say to Canadians that we are concerned, that we're doing this. One can say that after we have studied it, perhaps we can then wait for these reports to come and then look at them and conclude, but even that will depend on the particular speed at which they are doing these things.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Dosanjh actually used the words “abandoning our responsibilities”. The media today has also put it right in the lap of the federal government.
With all due respect--I'm not a member of this committee--but as it was pointed out, four out of the five jurisdiction responsibilities.... I don't think we can afford, as federally elected members, to say it has already been looked into and certain revelations have come forth. It is in our laps. To sit back with Mr. Mayes--I think it was a good suggestion--would save time, but I think we're going to be perceived as federal representatives who are sitting back and doing nothing--waiting for the report and then analyzing it and procrastinating in some way. I think there has to be something on behalf of the federal government, and this committee specifically, to show that we're front and centre.
I'll close with this. The media has put the pressure on all of us. It's not the government necessarily. It's on all of us: it's your responsibility, you undertake it, let's see what you're going to do.
Based on that, I don't think we should be abandoning our responsibilities, as Mr. Dosanjh said.