Public Safety Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

That isn't what I said, Minister.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

You have a chance with this bill now to do something constructive to help Canadians. Embrace it. Celebrate it. Don't complain about it. If you have knowledge and expertise, make the amendments and put them forward, but stop whining that you're being asked to do some work.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

My next point is with respect to this. You indicate as though, by taking away judicial discretion, all sex offenders are now mandatorily placed on the list. You have actually not done that in this legislation. There are two separate lists of offences.

So everything you have said to the committee to this point indicates that all sex offenders will be placed on the sex offender registry. What was exactly your thinking, your study, and your evidence that excluded certain offenders and put some on? I don't actually think this bill is tough enough. Our committee was actually going to suggest stronger mandatory registration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Unfortunately, time is up.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

As you know, there are two lists of offences. There are those that are directly sexual offences. We know what those are. They're things like sexual interference, invitation to sexual touching, sexual exploitation. Those are the ones for automatic inclusion and they go on. It's quite a long list.

Then there's the list of offences where you can apply for inclusion, if you can establish to a court that there was an underlying sexual intent to the act. Those are things like kidnapping, criminal harassment, manslaughter. I don't think anybody believes that criminal harassment or manslaughter should result in automatic inclusion in the sex offender registry; that's not its purpose. But if there were a sexual content to that offence, then there will be an opportunity to apply. That is not automatic, because that is a judgment call. That requires judgment, and judges are there to provide their judgment.

That's why we have that list of secondary offences where you look at the question of whether or not there was an intent that is sufficient to result in inclusion in the registry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

You are actually over by half a minute.

Thank you very much.

We'll move to the Conservative side with Mrs. Glover, for five minutes.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Campbell and Minister, for appearing today.

To preface my question, Minister Van Loan, I have been on this committee for a very short period of time, and I am so pleased that we are getting down to business. I have to say that several of the original meetings that I was present for dealt with travel schedules. I am just thrilled that we are talking about the safety and security of Canadians once again. That is, as you've stated very clearly, what this committee ought to be doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes, Ms. Mourani, on a point of order.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I find unacceptable what our colleague has just said. We are not discussing travel, we are discussing doing a study on Federal Corrections: Mental Health and Addiction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Okay.

I won't count that time against you. Go ahead, Mrs. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

In any event, I know that your time is short here. I know that you have a lot to share with the committee. I'm going to open this up to you, Minister Van Loan, to share with us whatever it is that you feel is important for us know, it being that we don't get to see you very often. I would welcome any comments you have for this committee.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I will say this: I welcome the fact that there appears to be broad consensus in support of the notion of expanding the sex offender registry. I would hope the result of that consensus is that it will move out of this committee quickly and that you'll work with colleagues to ensure rapid passage through report stage and third reading, and for those of you who have colleagues in the Senate, that you'll do the same there. I do think time is of the essence. Time has been a bit of a theme here.

The worst thing that can happen for any parliamentarian, and all of us bear this burden, is to have some offence happen because of a gap that exists here and to have people say that it's your fault because you're sitting around debating, taking too long in getting this change into law, and it was in front of you. I don't think any of us want to answer for that to the community.

Since we have a broad consensus and everybody seems to support it, I hope that we'll all go back to our respective caucuses, House leaders, and Senate leaders and say that this is a priority, let's make it go. Let's make it happen quickly so we can put in place protections that we all agree are good things.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

To address Ms. Mourani's comments, I meant absolutely no disrespect to the initiative at hand. We absolutely want to study what's about to be studied in this committee; however, we need to get on with the business at hand. I don't believe we can just pretend that the committee doesn't have business that sometimes is trivial in nature. It's part and parcel of being part of a committee.

So I want to be very clear that I absolutely agree with the study and I believe we ought to do the study, but at one point or another we have to do the work and not just discuss the trivialities of scheduling.

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister. I appreciate the hard work that you've put into this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you.

We have two minutes left.

Ms. Mourani, do you have any questions?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

You have two minutes.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Minister, you stated earlier that you were very concerned with the protection of children. I can tell you that this is a concern that is dear to my heart also, both as a citizen and as a mother. We are in complete agreement on that.

I cannot help but ask you a question I put to your colleague, Mr. Day, a few years ago; it was in 2007, if my memory serves me right. Why is it that there continue to be pedophiles welcomed in the halfway house that is just two steps away from my primary school and my day-care centre? We talk about registries, we talk about protecting children, but there is a minimum. When I am sent pedophiles such as Mr. Bégin, a well-known pedophile who found himself in my riding, at Martineau CCC, I find that unacceptable. To date, your government has done nothing, your department of Public Safety has done nothing. I met with representatives from Martineau CCC a few days ago, and they confirmed to me that they are continuing to be sent pedophiles.

Are you, please, going to do something in this regard? I no longer want pedophiles next door to my day-care centre that cares for 90 children. It is really like setting the fox to mind the geese.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I was unaware of that particular case until you raised it.

I know we've had other situations like that where there was an unacceptable relationship with a parole office or a community residential facility or a CCC, as they call them in English, the ones run by Correctional Service of Canada. We have taken steps to make sure that the location is changed or that the offender mix is carefully selected with regard to that consideration.

I'd be very happy to look into that and pursue it further for you.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, I will be following what happens.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister. We appreciate your time.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

We had scheduled the minister to appear before us for one hour and we didn't start this meeting until well after 11:10, largely because members on the other side were not here on time. We were here sitting on the opposition side ready to go at 11:00, and we did not start this. I would ask, since the minister does not appear before us very often, that we have the full hour that we scheduled.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

By the way, we started at 11:05, and I have to have a quorum. The minister was here for five minutes or eight minutes. He was waiting for us. It is not his fault that we did not start on time.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chairman, I'm not saying in any way that it was the minister's fault.