Evidence of meeting #42 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ottawa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Okay, time is up on that.
We'll now move to the Bloc Québécois.
Monsieur Ménard, are you going to lead off?
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
11:45 a.m.
Director, Edmonton Drug Treatment and Community Restoration Court
I'm sorry, I'm not aware of it.
11:45 a.m.
Senior Director, Corporate Services, Rideauwood Addiction and Family Services
Yes.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
11:45 a.m.
Senior Director, Corporate Services, Rideauwood Addiction and Family Services
My understanding of Portage--and we have had clients attend there previously--is that they're not a drug treatment court according to the strict model; they are a treatment centre that accepts people who are in conflict with the law, which is something that is difficult.
I can't speak to Quebec, I'm sorry. But in Ontario it's very difficult for people who are in conflict with the law to get into addiction treatment until those matters have been resolved. My understanding is that Portage is one that will accept people who are in conflict with the law.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Portage was not created for people who are in conflict with the law, but for people with very serious drug addition problems, mostly with heroin. When I talk about it, I ask people to think of Alcoholics Anonymous, but at a higher level. Obviously, some of the people who go to Portage are in conflict with the law but others were not yet in that situation.
I know that it is a completely different approach and that to become eligible to drug treatment courts, the person must have been charged by a criminal court.
11:50 a.m.
Assistant Crown Attorney, Ministry of the Attorney General, Government of Ontario
If you will allow me, sir, I would like to say that I was Crown Attorney in Gatineau for almost three years. In the province of Quebec, you have the benefit, as a crown attorney, to deal with provincial crimes, like in most parts of Canada, but also with drug crimes and offences related to the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act.
Having worked in Quebec, I have some experience in that area. We do not have any drug treatment courts. So we are forced to find other means of diversion as it is the case with mental health problems. We use conditional sentencing. We find partners who are willing to hire drug addicted offenders and we are trying to adapt the sentence in order to allow them to get a treatment. This goes against a law requiring that the sentence be executed immediately after the guilty plea—
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I am sorry to interrupt, Mr. Moffat, but I only have seven minutes. I understand, from what you are saying, that you know the Portage Centre.
11:50 a.m.
Assistant Crown Attorney, Ministry of the Attorney General, Government of Ontario
Yes.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
You are probably aware that in Quebec, several organizations have been created based on the Portage model. They are not as strict as Portage, but they are trying to rehabilitate those people.
11:50 a.m.
Assistant Crown Attorney, Ministry of the Attorney General, Government of Ontario
Yes.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
You can see that many defence counsels are trying to refer their clients to those centres in order to obtain lesser sentences.
11:50 a.m.
Assistant Crown Attorney, Ministry of the Attorney General, Government of Ontario
This is right.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I did not know the drug treatment courts model.
Should I understand that one of their features is that the person must have been charged with a criminal offence?
11:50 a.m.
Assistant Crown Attorney, Ministry of the Attorney General, Government of Ontario
It starts not only with a criminal charge, but also with a request being submitted to us by a defence attorney.
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Assistant Crown Attorney, Ministry of the Attorney General, Government of Ontario
Absolutely.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
In the documentation you sent us, there is a reference to bipolar disorder. I feel compelled to ask you a question.
I thought that bipolar disorder was easy to treat with lithium, but that the major difficulty was to convince people suffering from that disorder to continue with their treatment. Once they feel well again, they believe that they do not need it anymore and their problems reappear. You probably know that Pierre Péladeau was bipolar and that great artists also have the same condition.
It seems to me that for people suffering from that disease, the solution is quite simple: we could simply tell them to continue with their treatment.
11:50 a.m.
Clinical Director, Forensic Services Champlain, Royal Ottawa Health Care Group
Well, it's straightforward in a way to tell someone with bipolar illness just to take their medication, but it's difficult to actually have them do it when they don't have insight. Some of the things you put around them in the mental health court are support workers, housing, help to solve some of the other stresses and problems. You help them develop an alliance and start to develop a sense that they can improve their lives, and then they start to include medications as part of it. I often will prescribe people medications that help them in some other way, such as helping their sleep, etc. Then gradually, as they get better, their insight will improve.
You're quite right that many people with bipolar disorder do very well, but there's also a small group who are difficult to treat. We can't get them to stay on their medications, and they often are using substances, so that there is a really vicious cycle in play.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
From what I understand, you do not accept people accused of drug trafficking. Yet, I would think that a large number of heavy users who are very addicted resort to drug trafficking in order to finance their addiction. I believe that this form of addiction is a problem that you should treat.
