Public Safety Committee on Dec. 8th, 2009

[David Moffat]

Personally, I do some publicity. I spread the word to my colleagues. I encourage them to find people with drug addiction or mental health problems and who meet our eligibility criteria. These are the people who make the requests; we do not do the selection. Afterwards, we decide if we shall use our discretionary power to allow them to take part in the program.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

What are your eligibility criteria?

[David Moffat]

In Ottawa, we talk about people who might be sentenced to less than two years. We do not accept people who are found guilty of violent crimes, domestic violence, impaired driving or residential break-and-enter.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

But you accept those who break and enter in commercial premises?

[David Moffat]

Yes.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I would think that it largely limits the number of people who might be eligible. At first, I thought that you did not accept drug traffickers. I understand the difference between those who are trafficking for commercial gain and others. Usually, they are not drug users themselves, but in fact, a large number of those who traffic for commercial gain are also addicted to cocaine.

It does not seem to leave many possibilities for eligibility considering that there are not many offences that are only punishable with two years of imprisonment.

[David Moffat]

At the provincial level, in Ottawa, the fact is that this is limiting.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Do you have programs in which you have in-patients?

[David Moffat]

Yes. However, our system does not provide for that at the present time in our program in Ottawa. However, if, as the program develops, our treatment supplier decides that it might be beneficial for these people, they could become in-patients and go back to the program later.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

What we are talking about here are housing resources. How do you intend to get the funding required?

[James Budd]

We work with what is available in the community, but we have also managed to arrange some special partnerships, with the Homelessness Partnering Secretariat, for example, and we've partnered with the John Howard Society and the Elizabeth Fry Society to manage supervised transitional housing for our participants. That has been very helpful to our program and to our participants. Unfortunately, the funding for that will be coming to an end on March 31 of 2010, and we will have to be seeking other resources to accommodate that.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

Excuse me, Mr. Ménard, but I want to make sure that there will be enough time left for all questions in the fifth turn.

Can you conclude your question now or in the next 10 seconds?

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Yes.

I know that Correctional Services Canada was sending people to Portage and was paying for the cost. Is it still the case?

[Doug Brady]

No, they're not involved with us at that stage, because they're guilty pleas, and they're looking at a sentence that could relate to it. So they're sentenced after the fact. They're not sentenced right away. They plead guilty right away, but they're not sentenced until after they complete the program.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Davies, for four minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

First of all, on dual-diagnosis patients, I wonder if you can give me 45 seconds on the efficacy of this program for people with a dual diagnosis.

[Dr. Helen Ward]

Do you want me to comment on cognitive delay impairments and mental health?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

It's usually mental health and addictions. That's how I understand it.

[Dr. Helen Ward]

Okay, you mean mental health and addictions. I won't comment then... Well, actually, I will comment.

We often have people we would like to see be part of a drug treatment program, but we don't think, with their mental health issues, they can manage to handle that program. We end up with people from that program who seem to be better served by the mental health court approach.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm still a little unclear about the violence aspect. I have three different notes here. One is that people who commit violent offences cannot participate. Another is that those who have committed violent offences can participate, provided they're not at risk of committing a violent act again. What is the deal for people who have committed an act of violence and their eligibility?

[Dr. Helen Ward]

In mental health court it's very different. It depends on the court. We will take all comers, pretty much. Drug treatments are different because they're dealing with the federal funder.

[Doug Brady]

The federal guidelines say that we cannot take violent offenders. That's where our guidelines come from as far as our funding agreement goes. That's what it basically boils down to.

We take a look at people on a case-by-case basis. We don't necessarily exclude them. If it's a one-time thing or if it's someone who doesn't have a history of violence, we may look at them. In our court, the crown brings these people to court and asks if we can work with them. We make a decision as a court team, along with the treatment team, on that basis.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'll get a tad political.

Not to make anybody uncomfortable, but on conditional sentences, this government has moved to restrict the availability of conditional sentences. This sounds like a poster child program for conditional sentencing. You get a sentence, but you're serving it in the community, in effect, under very tight conditions, such as drug treatment and so on.

Would you agree, at least with respect to mentally ill offenders and people who are addicted, that this conditional sentencing is perhaps a better way to go than incarceration?

[James Budd]

Just to be clear, drug treatment court is not a conditional sentence. The participants are not under sentence when they come into the program.

I would point out that we do have quite a number of participants in our program who are also mentally ill and who are not faced solely with addiction problems. We only have the resources, really, to work with those who are at the mild to moderate levels--

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm sorry, could I get you to explain that more?

I don't understand why that's not a conditional sentence. A person has been charged. He or she is in court and either faces going to jail or being diverted out of it. Whatever you want to call it, that sounds, in practice, as if it is a form of conditional sentencing.