Evidence of meeting #12 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was illegal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Convenience Stores Association, National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco
They'd have to answer that directly. I don't have that answer.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
We've been advocating with some people in the United States to try to get them to look into this issue, and we are amazed at the lack of information politicians in the United States have about the current problem at Akwesasne. If the problem were reversed, if the illicit manufacturers were on the Canadian side of Akwesasne, for sure we would hear a lot from the American authorities to deal with this issue. We're not hearing anything from them.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Perhaps some of these questions I'm putting--because they really would have been better answered by the RCMP--I'll also put on paper, and they can perhaps be forwarded through your offices to the previous witnesses. But I'll continue.
So you are not aware of any joint task force between authorities in Canada and in the United States, or are you?
First Vice-President, Customs and Immigration Union, National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco
I am aware, sir, that there is a task force with the RCMP and the QPP, and I think he was referring to that. But most of that cooperation is built on the intelligence kind of work, which is good. We totally agree that you need to generate intelligence work in order to be able to target exactly who is the enemy here.
The problem is that there is a lack of resources out in the field. Basically, the RCMP is hardly patrolling the border, as we know. They're conducting investigations, and as a result, they may send people out in the field, but patrolling the border is a problem right now. That's why I know the actual government, in their last platform, announced that a border patrol would be created, especially somewhere around Valleyfield, as a matter of fact.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Because of time limits, excuse my having to cut you off, but I'd like to move on to a couple of other questions.
Are you aware of any major raids or shutdowns of factories on the U.S. side?
President, Canadian Convenience Stores Association, National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco
No.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
The U.S. government has been able to license two of those illicit manufacturers. There are currently negotiations with the illicit manufacturers, and it's a very, very slow process. They just got the second one to be licensed federally, but there are still a lot more illicit manufacturers on that reserve.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
So what that seems to indicate is that the U.S. authorities are well aware of where those factories are, who those factories are, and who the individuals running those factories are. If they're engaged in licensing two of them, great. What about shutting down those that are illegal?
Once again, these will be questions that I'll have to have forwarded.
Following the money, we have very strict regulations and mechanisms in place ever since 9/11 to make sure that large amounts of money are traceable, especially moneys that come from illegal sources. We're talking about a $1 billion industry.
Have you seen any reports that follow the money, that trace the money back to the sources that are making the huge profits on this? We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars of profits. Where is it landing? Can any of you answer that question? And once again, if you can't, it will be a question forwarded to the RCMP.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
I'm not familiar with the procedures or tactics used by the RCMP or the authorities to enforce the laws existing in Canada or in the United States, or whether that's one way they're looking at as part of their investigation. I think the appropriate person to answer that question is Joe Oliver.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Than as far as you're aware, nobody has actually been charged and given a big tax bill and told to cough up, except for the Canadian manufacturers who were caught engaging in this a few years back.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
I'm a native from Montreal. A few years ago there was a major raid on the Kahnawake Reserve. They shut down one of those illicit manufacturers, but it was on the grounds that it was involved in illicit drugs also. That's where they had the cooperation of the peacekeepers on the reserve, but when the media asked the peacekeepers what they were going to do about the other illicit tobacco manufacturers, they were very quiet about it.
It's a big concern. They've shut down one of those illicit manufacturers.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cunningham, I would like to check something with you. At the end of your document, at point 6, you talk payment of $400 million to be spread over 10 years. What exactly are you talking about in that document?
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
Yes, right.
We saw that with the settlement reached Between Rothmans, Benson & Hedges Inc. and the government of Canada and the provinces, it said that—I am going to read it in English:
In recognition and support of the Governments' past and continuing efforts to combat contraband and other illicit tobacco products....
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
No, no, not that. I understood that. It's at the bottom, in point 6. You are talking about a payment.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
That is an excerpt from the agreement. Rothmans, Benson & Hedges Inc. is going to pay a civil settlement to the government over a several-year period.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
To both: the provinces and the federal government.
