Evidence of meeting #12 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was illegal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
So it's $400 million over 10 years to the provinces and the federal government. So can we think that the royalties the federal government will receive are above $100 million?
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
It's over $800 million for the federal government.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
Yes, for the three companies, for the federal and provincial governments, it comes to $1.7 billion.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
I understand that only $20 million has been put into combating contraband. I understood that, according to Mr. Damphousse, that is insufficient, and I agree. So all these millions of dollars would be paid into the consolidated fund. That is what I understood from Mr. Bertrand, that $80 million of the $100 million would go into the consolidated fund. For all the other millions of dollars, we don't really know. Has it been paid?
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
All the other millions of dollars go into the consolidated fund as well, and a large portion goes to the provinces. You also have to know that a few months after the agreement with Imperial Tobacco and Rothmans, Benson & Hedges Inc. in July 2008, the federal government allocated about $300 million to help farmers, particularly to help them get out of the tobacco growing market. On the other hand, we are facing a major contraband problem and they decided to allocate only $20 million over four years, in other words, $5 million, to control a problem that generates tax losses on the order of over a million dollars for the federal government and the provinces.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
What I understand is that there is ordinarily more than $80 million in the consolidated fund.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
Let's look at the amounts for the first two companies. The penalty was on the order of $1.15 billion, so $300 million for the farmers, as I said. There is also $20 million for combating contraband. Part of the money goes to the provinces. There is also $550 million for the last agreement with JTI-Macdonald. That makes $1.7 billion. It is the highest penalty on record in Canada for a crime committed by a resident corporation. In our opinion, a good portion of that money should be used to prevent the problem we are currently facing.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
What I understand is that this $1.7 billion is in the consolidated fund, as you see it. Is that right?
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
For the federal government and the provinces.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
For the federal government and the provinces, yes.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
I would like to raise another point perhaps with Mr. Fortin. I'm looking at the presentation, I assume you represent...
First Vice-President, Customs and Immigration Union, National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco
The Customs and Immigration Union.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
I was just questioning Mr. Oliver, from the RCMP, who gave me some rather impressive answers. Generally speaking, he told me that they don't dare to take action on the reserves, for public safety reasons, in particular to close down the illegal factories whose locations they know. In reply to the question from my colleague Mr. Davies, he said that none of those factories had been closed down. When we question that, we are told it is a matter of public safety.
Do you experience the same thing at customs? You can't take action on the reserves. Do you think that is reasonable?
First Vice-President, Customs and Immigration Union, National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco
The biggest change observed was in Cornwall. From the point our officers went to Cornwall, the number of seizures shot up. That is the case for any criminal organization: we have actually become much more effective on the ground, but we see that organized crime is starting to change.
First Vice-President, Customs and Immigration Union, National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco
Last week, I crossed the Mercier bridge and I had a view of a huge ship transporting cases of cigarettes, at 8:00 in the morning. They are doing it in broad daylight now.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
If I understand correctly, you or someone else in your organization can see these activities going on, but you can't do anything because it is happening on reserves, for public safety reasons, as the RCMP says.
First Vice-President, Customs and Immigration Union, National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco
The problem is that we are confined to our offices, at present. We are making the argument that the law allows us to take action. If the RCMP asks us to support it, we can do that. However, we simply are not being asked. So it is rather frustrating for our people who would very much prefer to be mobile rather than immobile.
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
May I add something to the answer?
Director, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
Right. In fact, that is the reason why we advocate controls on raw materials.