Public Safety Committee on April 29th, 2010

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Okay, not that person, but less specifically, if individuals, after having been reviewed the first time by the panel, decided to use their discretion to take their case before the courts, would they be removed from the specified persons list while they were pursuing an avenue in court?

[Gerard McDonald]

The only way to be removed from the list is for the minister to remove them from it.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Okay.

I'm having a hard time understanding. I'm concerned, obviously, in the interim about whether we are ensuring that people who are a threat are not permitted to travel, even if they are seeking resolution in a court. But it sounds as though that's perhaps a question you can't answer directly.

I am also concerned that there's some miscommunication about the American list process and our list process. I believe there may have been a situation Mr. Kania is trying to deal with in regard to his constituent that may not in fact have been a Canadian-based problem. I do hope that his constituents, through his assistance, find an answer to that.

I think there have been some suggestions, but it seems clear to me that our list does not contain the names of children.

[Gerard McDonald]

It does not.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

So I am confident that the eight-year-old was not prevented from boarding a Canadian flight because of our list. I just want to make that clear. I'm convinced, given what you've said, that this is in fact the case.

Also, Air Canada, for example—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Don Davies]

Mrs. Glover, you're over five minutes. Perhaps you could just wrap up your question and we'll let the witness answer.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Who from the airlines has access to this list? How do you keep that access as narrow as possible?

[Gerard McDonald]

They have people designated within their organization, with the appropriate security clearances to handle the list.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

So they have security clearance. They are special, so to speak.

[Gerard McDonald]

That's right.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Don Davies]

Monsieur Desnoyers.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome.

My first question is for Mr. Tremblay.

You made reference to a committee that studies the names of people that should be put on the list.

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

That we recommend, sir.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

How many people are on this committee?

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

Three, sir.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Three people: one from the RCMP, one from...?

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

—from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, and one from Transport Canada.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

What criteria does the committee use to recommend to the minister that such and such a person's name should be put on the list? I imagine that if the person is a member of a terrorist organization, you would make the recommendation.

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

Yes, sir.

To be more specific, once again, I would say that the determining factors for us would be this person's actions. And by "actions", I mean that it is only an issue of participation in a group, an organization. It may be a person who has a history of activities that represent a threat to aviation security. It could also be someone who has demonstrated the intention of endangering aviation security. Or, once again, it could be someone who is involved in an activity that encourages threats to aviation security.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

As far as profiling is concerned, you choose these people, and one could be a terrorist, there could be someone who has committed a crime or again someone who has committed some kind of offence, more or less.

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

It could be someone who has committed an offence that represents a threat to aviation security. It is not just an issue of having committed a crime; there has to be a connection between the crime and aviation security.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

There are therefore just those three criteria.

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

Those are the only generic criteria, yes. In fact, we are talking about a person who has proven that they represent a threat to aviation security, or who is considered as such by the committee.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You referred to actions. Could you give us an example? You must certainly have taken several into consideration. The lists are important.