Public Safety Committee on May 26th, 2010

[Dr. Pierre Maurice]

As Mr. Blais is the co-author of that study, I'm going to let him explain that to you.

[Etienne Blais]

I'm going to try to answer in clear language, avoiding the jargon of the statistician and, in some cases, the criminologist.

Briefly, we conduct trend analyses on the rates of homicides and suicides committed using firearms and other means. We conduct analyses in which we take existing trends into account. We know very well that the trend is downward. We also consider socio-economic circumstances. We know that firearms control is not the only factor that may influence the rates. Lastly, based on all these factors, we determine whether there was a drop in the rates of suicides and homicides committed using firearms before and after the implementation of Bill C-68. We repeat the same procedure for the rates of suicides and homicides committed by other means and, with the aid of statistical criteria, we create estimates.

Those estimates tell us whether there has been a significant decline in the rates of homicides and suicides committed by firearms following implementation of Bill C-68 and that, at the same time, the rates of homicides and suicides committed by other means did not increase following implementation of Bill C-68. This means that there is no so-called displacement effect. I would add that these methods are recognized as being the most rigorous in the scientific field.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

So there is scientific evidence that the act and the Canadian Firearms Registry have saved lives, period.

[Etienne Blais]

We are in a position to say that it's the act. However, other research may prove necessary as Dr. Maurice was saying, to determine clearly all the mechanisms. The fact remains that, at this stage, we consider it risky to withdraw an essential component of the act and subsequently to risk compromising public health and safety.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

But the answer is that the scientific evidence exists.

[Etienne Blais]

It exists.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I have to share my time with my colleague Mr. Kania.

Thank you very much.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Chief Blair, you've mentioned documents and letters that you brought with you. Could you make sure you table those for the committee, please, so we have them?

[Chief William Blair]

Yes. I believe they were provided to the clerk and I have them at the back here. And my most sincere apologies, as some of the resolutions that I have received from the provincial associations have not yet been translated into French. We will undertake to do that for the committee members as quickly as possible.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Chief Blair, you indicated that on this issue the police are united like no other issue. Some people have commented that there's a silent, and silenced, majority of police officers who don't speak out. I'd like you to please comment on that.

[Chief William Blair]

I can't recall any other issue of public safety or public policy in which the police chiefs right across Canada, not just the national association but the provincial associations in urban and rural communities in virtually every region of the country, as well as the police associations, both national and local, along with our police services boards, have come together. The documents that I have provided here today demonstrate a remarkably consistent support for the gun registry from police leaders right across the country.

We have met with the police association leaders. We are not always on the same page. On this issue we are united. I'm not suggesting for a moment that support is unanimous, but I have never experienced, in my 33 years of policing, such a common cause among police officers, advocating for information that helps keep us safe and helps us do our job.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Does the fact that some guns are not registered mean the system should not exist?

[Chief William Blair]

No, and I think we should do everything we can to encourage Canadians in their compliance. Rather than just simply abandon the efforts to maintain a registry because some are not complying, we should do everything we can to ensure their compliance, and I believe that's through public education: educating Canadians on the value of the registry, the fact that it does not cost them to do it, the fact that it can be done efficiently, and the fact that the registration system is now an efficient operation and it has real value to law enforcement.

My experience is that police chiefs--

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Chief Blair.

Ms. Hoeppner, five minutes.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here. I sincerely appreciate all of you being here and all of the input that you have provided.

Chief Blair, I think we know you and I are on very different sides of this issue. I think it's clear you support keeping the registry. I've introduced the bill. I support seeing it ended.

One of the factors is the cost, from the $4 million the RCMP has given us, all the way to what the Canadian Taxpayers Federation told us yesterday, I think $106 million. When I look at the main estimates for the Treasury Board and the government website that I just got yesterday, I know that just the firearms registration—not the licensing, just the firearms registration—was $23 million. Now, of that, we know approximately seven million long guns and about 700,000 prohibited and restricted are in that. So we're somewhere between $4 million and all the way up to $106 million.

I have a very simple question to ask you. If you had an extra $4 million all the way up to $106 million to spend, would you spend it on hiring more police officers or keeping the long-gun registry?

[Chief William Blair]

Let me tell you—

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

It's quite a simple question: keep the long-gun registry or hire more officers?

If you can't answer, it's okay.

[Chief William Blair]

I can answer it.

We invest quite significantly in the gathering of information and making that information available to our officers. Accurate, reliable information makes them more effective and helps keep them safe. So for us, it's not an either/or. A police officer who does not have accurate, reliable information upon which to make decisions is not going to be effective.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I'm sorry, sir. Can I ask you to please answer? It's a tough decision. Would you rather spend the money on more officers or keeping the long-gun registry?

I will ask the other officer here the same question.

[Chief William Blair]

And I'll tell you, I make that decision on a daily basis when I run my police services.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Long-gun registry or police officers? If you don't want to answer, sir, I understand.

[Chief William Blair]

Let me answer. I believe there is sufficient value in the long-gun registry that I advocate for its retention.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

So you would rather keep the long-gun registry.

[Chief William Blair]

Yes.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much.

Sergeant Grismer, I want to thank you as well for being here. I'd like to ask you the same question.

As a front-line officer who's on the streets day after day dealing with criminals—and I would be interested to know what the Toronto police officers who are right now on the streets of Toronto had to say about this—in Saskatchewan, where you stand, what would you rather spend that money on, hiring more officers or keeping the long-gun registry?