Public Safety Committee on Dec. 15th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

We'll now move back to the opposition side.

We have Mr. Kania for five minutes, please.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Minister.

Just going back to something that my friend Mr. MacKenzie indicated, Justice O'Connor's recommendations came out while the Conservatives were in government. Is that correct?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Yes.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

The Conservative government has promised to implement all of those recommendations. Is that correct?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

The Conservative government, as we do with all of those, looks at all the recommendations. Again, in the example I gave—

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I'm just asking whether you promised.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Your committee recommended that we bring forward these provisions. We do that.

To say that we have promised to implement all recommendations of any particular report.... We look at them very carefully, we agree with them in principle, and we act on them.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

My question is whether the Conservatives have promised to implement all of Justice O'Connor's recommendations, yes or no.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

We have indicated we would come forward with an action plan that would address the concerns raised, and we have done that.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

And that was the recommendation from approximately five years ago. Is that correct?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

The action plan covers recommendations from a number of different areas, as I said earlier, I think in answer to Mr. Holland—I quoted parts of that action plan—which should give you some comfort.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

As we sit here today, those recommendations have not been implemented. Is that correct?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'm here to testify with respect to the two provisions that sunsetted and that we want to have.

Now, if you want to get into a broad discussion of policing and public safety and all the different recommendations, I'll get back to megatrials, if you want, and how that has been one of the consistent recommendations that we've had. But I'm asking you to focus on these particular provisions, which I believe have widespread support, which were recommended by this committee and recommended by a previous Liberal government. I'm asking you to implement and go forward with those.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Minister. I'm going to focus my questions on that after you, if you would, please, respect us and answer a simple question that I put, which should only take five seconds, that is, whether those recommendations have been implemented yet.

And they haven't been. Can you not just admit that Justice O'Connor's recommendations haven't yet been implemented? How hard is that?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, nothing is ever complete, if that's what you're trying to suggest. But I can tell you that we have moved forward and we will continue to move forward on all different areas. One of the areas we're moving forward on is this particular piece of legislation, but I can't even say that has been done, because you'll have to pass it first to get that one done.

I'd like to talk about all these recommendations in the past tense, but you know very well how difficult it is to get any changes brought forward. But I'm certainly hoping we'll have luck with this one.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Once again, have Justice O'Connor's recommendations been implemented, yes or no?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Well, again, we're in the process of implementing the recommendations from that and a number of other reports, including Justice Major's, and that's part of the action plan we have.

But it's not complete. As I say, it's important...I cannot talk about it in the past tense and say we have done it, we have brought in those anti-terrorism provisions. I always have to be careful and say that I have it before Parliament, and we are acting on these. Once it gets royal assent—and I hope that's very soon—then I'll be able to speak in the past tense: that these provisions have been done.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I will take that as a very long way to say, “Yes, you're right. It has not been implemented yet.”

And now I'll get on to the bill.

Concerning this sunset clause, we have not had this legislation in effect since February 2007. Is that correct?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

That's correct. They sunset it.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Okay.

I want to be clear. I'm in favour of whatever is reasonable to protect Canadians, so I'm not against this.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Good.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

But I'm asking for reasoned, logical analysis, not positions or rhetoric.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Yes, I guess so.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Since February 2007, how has Canada or how have Canadians, in any way, suffered or been prejudiced by the fact that we have not had these provisions in place? It's been a number of years, so tell us about that.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

You'd have to ask the RCMP and law enforcement agencies who investigate these. I hear from them, law enforcement agencies in general, on a regular basis that when they don't have the tools to investigate certain kinds of activity, Canadians are the poorer for that.

If you're asking me whether we've been subject to terrorist activities that these may have...I want these tools on the books for any future terrorism activity, and I want them to be available. It would be too late if a terrorist activity took place in Canada and we heard from law enforcement agencies, “I wish we had the tools; I wish we were able to intercept this.” And then I would imagine you might be among the first, your colleagues, to criticize us and say, “Why didn't the Conservatives bring in these provisions?”

So that's what we're doing today with these provisions. They're the best ones to answer that question. But what I hear from them and what I hear from my colleagues when we discuss these is that they are very much in support of it.

I agree with your committee's recommendation that these are important, that we have to have them, and I appreciate that.