Public Safety Committee on April 1st, 2010

[Jennifer Oades]

I think up to 24% of women now being admitted to federal prisons have a serious mental health disorder. We're not talking just anti-social personality disorders, but serious disorders.

It is a huge concern. It remains an enormous challenge. I think when Commissioner Head was here not long ago.... It's trying to find that balance: how good do we want to be in terms of a mental health institution, because then it becomes de facto, but we also have to do something for these women offenders, who clearly need assistance. It's trying to find that balance.

In terms of the community part of it, so they don't get to a prison, that has to be an initiative that would involve all levels of government, probably likely private sector, a voluntary sector.

There is not an easy solution to this burgeoning crisis.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you very much.

We'll go over to the Bloc Québécois. Monsieur Desnoyers, please.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is similar to my colleague's. I really wonder about that topic.

How can we prevent drugs from being brought into prison? It seems to me that prisons are highly secure places. How is it possible for drugs to be brought in? I must admit that I am not aware of the methods used to do that. I am not sure if you know them. Whatever they are, they worry me. If we stopped this process from the start, we would solve many of the problems.

[Jennifer Oades]

Yes.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Like my colleague, I would like you to provide us with the reports and the exact numbers. Could you tell me what is being done and how much money is being spent to get the situation under control? When it comes down to it, we are investing millions of dollars, but if we put a portion towards that, we might not need to invest that much money elsewhere.

[Jennifer Oades]

I will briefly say that I have done quite a bit of work with jurisdictions around the world in a previous job with a correctional NGO. I would like to say that we have not yet found a prison around the world that has been successful in keeping drugs out of prisons, despite everybody's best efforts. We continue to have drug dogs. We have made enhancements at our principal entrances in terms of the equipment, the threat risk assessments that are being done now, and the ion scanners.

Short of shutting down a prison and never letting a visitor, a volunteer, or anyone in, I think it will be impossible, regardless of our best efforts. There's a lot of creativity out there in terms of how to get things in. Things are being thrown over the fence. It's difficult. We do our best.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you have any statistics showing whether we have succeeded in reducing drug smuggling?

[Jennifer Oades]

I think there are some statistics that I have seen recently. I will find out and get back to you about it. I know we do a report every day in terms of contraband—either coming in, being thrown over the fence, or however it gets there—that's been seized or found through cell searches. Having received reports over some time, I am seeing an increase in the amounts of seizures.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

As far as you know, has introducing methadone treatment helped to reduce the spread of infectious diseases in correctional facilities?

[Kate Jackson]

Certainly the evidence in research conducted in various jurisdictions has shown that people on methadone are less likely to.... The whole purpose of having people placed on methadone is to reduce their need for drugs, which results in risk behaviours related to infectious diseases. So yes, we do believe that.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Is it difficult to stop taking methadone once you start that program?

[Kate Jackson]

Generally speaking, methadone is prescribed for people with a diagnosis of opiate dependence. This goes above and beyond just abusing opiates: you are dependent on opiates. It's a long-term treatment. Generally speaking, it's not something that you go on and then go off. It's a substitute for an opiate. The effect does not provide the euphoric high that you would get using an opiate. It stops the craving and it also stops the withdrawal. It allows a person to stabilize so that they no longer go through the cycle of craving a drug and withdrawing from the drug.

There are instances, though, where people either voluntarily or involuntarily stop the program. In those instances, working very closely with the physicians, the drug is tapered very, very slowly to reduce the symptoms of withdrawal, but people still experience withdrawal.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You said that it is a long-term treatment. How long does it last?

[Kate Jackson]

Some people are on it for 10, 15, 20 years, or for life.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Years.

[Kate Jackson]

Yes.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In the correctional investigator's last report, methadone treatment was one of the inmates' main reasons for complaints. Why are they complaining about this treatment?

[Kate Jackson]

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the specific complaints they were commenting on. I'd have to know some more specific complaints.

The complaints we hear from offenders, generally speaking, have to do with wait times. Sometimes they may not be happy if they aren't admitted to the program, or things like that. Without knowing the specifics, it's hard to comment.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do we see the same types of problems with men and women, whether in terms of drugs being brought into prisons or the access to various treatments for drug use? Are there any statistics about that?

[Kate Jackson]

As a sample of how many women on methadone, on average we have about 700 offenders on methadone; in January there were 719 or so, and 55 are women.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay.

[Kate Jackson]

Proportionally, I'd have to do the math.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Is smuggling drugs into correctional facilities as prevalent for women as it is for men?

[Jennifer Oades]

Yes, it is.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

So we can say that we have an equitable system; we let as many drugs in for women as for men.