Yes.
Evidence of meeting #9 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #9 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay.
Since many of the citizens where the RCMP governs are first nations, I'm wondering whether your office, or anybody else you're aware of, has had any discussions with representatives of first nations to seek their input on an effective oversight mechanism.
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
We've worked very actively with the friendship centres, which have over 120 locations across the country, in dealing with aboriginal people. We have followed a policy of reaching out to them. We prepared a video that can be shown, because it's important, as so many people who are marginalized in society just don't understand—
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I'm sorry, Mr. McPhail, but I'll clarify my question. Have you specifically sought their input on the creation of a new oversight body?
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No, we have not.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you.
I'd like to get your view on something else that is a bit of related to this. It's our understanding that by statute, discipline can only be levied on RCMP officers if it's launched within a year. Of course, as we saw in the Dziekanski case, none of the four officers had any disciplinary procedures initiated against them within the one-year period. I think this could be a problem, because many of the oversight, review, and complaint processes take much longer than a year.
Do you have any advice or thoughts on how a new oversight body, or a body looking at the conduct of officers and justifying some form of disciplinary process, would interact with that one-year period? Is there any talk about expanding that one-year period? How does that fit together, in your view?
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Our advice hasn't been sought on that particular issue, but the commission has no desire to interfere in internal disciplinary matters. That would be inappropriate. The RCMP itself should be the body to conduct disciplinary matters. In my opinion, the RCMP is the body to request that expansion of its power to discipline members.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay. So complaints come to your office. There are quite a few.
Actually, I just want to talk about the numbers a bit. I'm not holding you to it, as you're still working on some of them, but 1,692 in the 2008-09 fiscal year, and then, the numbers aren't in yet, but about 1,800...that would tell me that complaints are going up to some degree.
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes. As a matter of fact—
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
What I take from this is that we're going in the wrong direction: complaints are going up.
Secondly, that amounts to five complaints a day, not including, as you said, complaints that are lodged directly with the RCMP.
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Correct.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Does that strike you as a high number of complaints, or is that a low number? Do we know where we stand in terms of complaints against the RCMP vis-à-vis other forces?
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's difficult to answer that because we can only go by our past experience. When we think of the thousands of RCMP officers, the millions of interactions that those officers have with members of the public each year, it's probably not a large number.
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Exactly.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
You haven't looked at numbers to see if that's high or low relative to any other police force.
4:55 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Mark Holland
With the concurrence of the committee, Mr. MacKenzie's round will complete the fifth round in total, and we'll end the meeting with the completion of the fifth round.
Mr. MacKenzie, you have five minutes.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. McPhail, I just want you to clarify something. Did you indicate that you thought the RCMP should set the policy across the country for all police people with tasers?
5 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The RCMP can't tell the OPP, for example, what its policy should be, but I think the RCMP should be the leader and set a standard that other police forces would want to adhere to.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Do you think the best way might be a consensus across the country?
5 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Very much so.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
I thought I heard something, and I might have heard something different, but when we talk about civilian oversight bodies, my sense would be, having come from an agency with oversight, that those oversight bodies would tend not to want to take total direction from one source, that they would want to be part of a large group that would come to consensus.
5 p.m.
Interim Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Absolutely, and I can tell you that with the commission and the RCMP, there's constant give and take discussion, diplomatic parlance, full and frank discussion over many issues. Absolutely, it's not up to any oversight agency to dictate to those who are on the front line. As I said in my introductory remarks, our goal is to assist the RCMP in doing its job better, and that's what I think the public wants.