Public Safety Committee on Nov. 1st, 2011

[Kenneth Putnam]

They sell the drugs. If you have an illegal substance inside a jail or penitentiary, that illegal substance gives you power. They don't have money, as such, passing back and forth.

Even cigarettes can be a powerful weapon. You have control. An addicted smoker will do practically anything for a cigarette. If you're in jail for a long period of time, it could be as much as a cigarette for half of your meal tonight. They also have canteens there, so it could be a little bit of canteen, or perhaps even sexual favours.

So that's the motivation. The other part of it is simply having power over other people.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

In your experience, Mr. Van De Mortel, do the inmates have access to money? Do they have bank accounts that they can deposit money in?

If money would be the motivation, is that something that—

[Tony Van De Mortel]

They do have accounts, yes. People can put money into their accounts and they can spend it on the canteen or whatever they need. So yes, they do have money.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Do you find that the canteen is a way for drugs to be brought in, or where the trade occurs? We heard some testimony about concerns with regard to who's running the canteens in prisons.

[Tony Van De Mortel]

No, in our situation in Whitehorse, we don't believe so.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Who runs them in your situation?

[Tony Van De Mortel]

A fellow named Mark.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

An inmate or staff?

[Tony Van De Mortel]

He's a staff member.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

So in your situation, staff run the canteens?

[Tony Van De Mortel]

Yes, staff run the canteen.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

So it's not other inmates.

[Tony Van De Mortel]

No, it's not inmates.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much.

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have three seconds left.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We'll now move back to Mr. Sandhu, please.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Basically, we want to understand the systemic issue of violence in prisons and the systemic use of drugs and alcohol in prisons.

Mr. Putnam, you talked about demand reduction to reduce supply. Can you give us what you think would be the best strategies to reduce the demand for drugs in prisons?

[Kenneth Putnam]

To reduce the demand?

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Right. What would be the best strategies to reduce the demand for drugs in prisons?

[Kenneth Putnam]

Well, if you had effective drug rehabilitation within the prisons, and people were buying into those programs, then the demand, I would think, obviously would decrease.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Van De Mortel, what are the best strategies to reduce violence in prisons?

[Tony Van De Mortel]

Keep drugs and alcohol and all that out of the prisons. If people are not intoxicated, they make more helpful choices. Their thinking capacity is a lot better. They make proper choices.

I mean, most of these guys are very respectful toward officers--in our situation, anyway, in Whitehorse--but when they get under the influence, which is why they're there, they're totally different people.

So if we keep that stuff out of the prisons as much as possible, it just makes everybody a lot safer, and it's a lot easier.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Would you agree there are two sides to illicit drugs in prisons, the demand side and the supply side?

[Tony Van De Mortel]

Yes. I mean, if there's no demand, there's no need for supply.