Evidence of meeting #25 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was monitoring.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
Do you want to answer that, Susan?
4:50 p.m.
Susan Kramer Director, Case Management Division, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
We don't track how much we spend precisely on electronic monitoring because that budget is put in with the other activities around monitoring of conditions. However, I can tell you that we spend between $40,000 to $60,000 on contract: that's equipment, access to the vendor's website, and to get support when equipment breaks down. Last year, for example, the CBSA spent $1.2 million. That's for the entire monitoring-of-conditions unit, so it includes other activities besides electronic monitoring.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Marie-Claude Morin NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you.
First I would like to thank you for coming here today. Your presentation was very interesting.
The representative from the Correctional Service of Canada talked to us earlier about an electronic monitoring pilot project conducted by his agency. It involved some 50 people.
Was there a similar project within your agency and, if so, what were the results? Were they conclusive?
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
We haven't undertaken a similar pilot project to date at CBSA, but I can tell you that our officials have initiated a dialogue with our CSC colleagues in order to learn from their experience as we consider EM in our own context.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Marie-Claude Morin NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
The other witness also said that it might be an additional tool for personnel. I imagine that that might also apply to your agency. How might this tool enable officers to do their job better?
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
I'll start off and then invite my colleague to add to this.
As I mentioned, there are three reasons for detention under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act: the individual represents a danger to the country; the individual represents a flight risk, so they won't show up for a proceeding; or, their identity hasn't been established.
So the terms and conditions and the measures that CBSA uses, which, on a selective basis, include EM, are to mitigate the risk that the individual represents to the safety and security of Canadians and to mitigate the risk that their absconding presents to the integrity of the immigration and refugee system. We use terms and conditions, such as reporting, curfews, and, on a selective basis, EM, to mitigate those risks.
That's essentially how our officers would find the tools helpful. Certainly, to the extent that studies would show this, it would be helpful in terms of investment value-for-dollar and ensuring that our programs are as efficient and effective as possible.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you. The time is up.
We'll go back to Ms. Hoeppner and Mr. Aspin, please.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Thank you. I'm going to share my time with Mr. Aspin.
I want to clarify this so that we're using correct terminology in regard what an asylum seeker is. Let's say 500 people show up on our shores seeking asylum. Their identity needs to be confirmed because, as I hear you say, that's one of the criteria.
While you're determining that identity, that's when they will be detained. There's a process and a timeline to get that done. Then their identity would be confirmed. If it's not confirmed and their refugee application is rejected, has failed, they're no longer asylum seekers. They're failed refugee claimants, which means a removal order. Is that the correct terminology?
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
That's exactly correct.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Okay. So we're not talking now about asylum seekers. We're talking about failed refugee applicants when we're talking about removal orders being issued.
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
That's right. They could be failed refugee claimants or they could be inadmissible to Canada for other reasons under the act.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
That's possibly because their identity isn't determined or the danger or some of the other criteria...?
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
They could represent a security risk.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jay Aspin Conservative Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Welcome to both of you. Thank you for coming here and answering our questions.
I just want to get a flavour for how we're doing in Canada vis-à-vis other countries. Can either of you give me a flavour for that in terms of the U.S. and European countries on EM for border control?
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
I'd have to undertake to get back to you on an accurate assessment of what like-minded countries are doing. We often compare ourselves to the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand. I know they have various types of programs that include EM. I'd be happy to provide further information so that I give you accurate information.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jay Aspin Conservative Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you.
I wonder if there's any impediment to a mandatory EM policy.
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
There certainly isn't a legislative impediment. Depending on the cost-effectiveness, there could be a fiscal impediment, but essentially it is an option we're considering. There's no particular impediment that prevents us from exploring its use further.
4:55 p.m.
Director, Case Management Division, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I think you have to look at what the electronic monitoring bracelet can do for you and look at the population that would be using it.
For example, people under a removal order generally don't want to go home, so that may not be the best technology to use for that group. They could just cut the bracelet off and, by the time you got to them, they would be gone. They would have disappeared.
We use them at the CBSA in particular types of cases, such as those people who are on security certificates and whose goal is not necessarily to leave, but to remain in Canada. Because they probably are going to be here for some time, it's the best option when you consider that with respect to detention.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jay Aspin Conservative Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Okay. Thanks to both of you.
I would appreciate you getting back to us on just the flavour of how we're doing vis-à-vis other countries.
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Post-Border Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
I'd be happy to do that.
Mr. Chair, if I may, I just want to make sure that I was clear in my response to a previous question regarding failed refugee claimants and the question with respect to identity. I hope I didn't mislead you by saying that the failure to establish someone's identity means that they're automatically a failed refugee. That is not the case. I just want to make sure that I was perfectly clear in my response.
Thank you.
5 p.m.
Conservative