Evidence of meeting #61 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
November 26th, 2012 / 4 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence and Targeting Operations, Canada Border Services Agency
That authority would still remain with the RCMP.
In fact, the impact of Bill S-7 on the activities of CBSA will be minimal.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
So it gives you the power to alert the RCMP that you've heard that this person is leaving to, I don't know, go to a terrorist camp or something.
4 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence and Targeting Operations, Canada Border Services Agency
It doesn't actually give us any new powers. That's an authority we already have. If we obtain or develop information or intelligence that an individual is planning to leave the country for terrorist purposes—which is unlikely, because there are two other organizations that are primarily mandated to do that—we would pass that information to the RCMP and CSIS.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Right now you wouldn't be allowed to pass it on to them?
4 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence and Targeting Operations, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes, we are allowed to pass it on to them now. We have a number of authorities for exchanging information.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
You'll have to forgive me if I'm still unclear as to what difference this bill makes to your day-to-day operations.
4 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence and Targeting Operations, Canada Border Services Agency
This bill doesn't give us any new authorities that we don't already have, and it will have very little—minimal—impact on our daily operations. The way it would involve our daily operations is if the RCMP or CSIS has an operation under way; then they may ask for our assistance at the port of entry or port of exit.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence and Targeting Operations, Canada Border Services Agency
They can. They can ask for it.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Okay, so there is very little change to the way things operate.
Now, you used a phrase that caught my attention. With this new bill, when it becomes law, you'll be able to “create a history of compliance for legitimate travellers”. Could you elaborate on that? In other words, will it allow you to create a database of how many times I've left the country without incident?
Could you just explain what you mean by creating a history of compliance for legitimate travellers?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Risk Management and Foresight Division, Program Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes.
Since there are no records of your exiting the country, we don't know if you've left or not. So if you are, let's say, a refugee claimant and your claim has been denied, we don't actually know if you've left the country, yes or no. For the integrity of the immigration program, it is important for us to know if you've left the country, let's say to go to the United States, so we can close the loop and know that you've left. It's the same for people who have overstayed their visa, if we would know that.
So it is to ensure the integrity of the immigration program, not to build some kind of statistics-based risk assessment tool.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
But it will allow you to investigate if this rejected refugee claimant has left the country. It will allow you to simplify it. You could be presented with a list of people whose visas have run out and you could then do a search. If you did a search, what would you be searching for?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Risk Management and Foresight Division, Program Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by searching?
4 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Well, suppose the government gives you a list that says these refugee claimants have been rejected. We don't know where they are or whether their visas have expired. What would you do with that information? Would you go to a database and see if these people have left the country recently?
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Risk Management and Foresight Division, Program Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
The information that would be collected in the exit information would be used to close that loop and to find out which individuals have left the country. Enforcement would put those who haven't left on a list of people we're looking for.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
It sounds like you will be compiling a database that you can go to if the Minister of Immigration gives you a list of people whose visas have expired.
What kind of information do you share with the U.S. on a daily basis?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence and Targeting Operations, Canada Border Services Agency
We share information with the U.S. in a number of ways. We share intelligence information. We share information on arrivals who have come to the attention of our targeting program. We share information in a number of ways for a number of reasons under a number of memoranda of understanding.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
There's not routine sharing, then. It's on a targeted basis.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence and Targeting Operations, Canada Border Services Agency
It's on a case-by-case basis.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
I'd like to shift to port security. There have been a couple of articles recently about differing points of view on how safe our ports are from entry of dangerous goods or sabotage. There are those who say that only 1% of the cargo is being inspected, but that's fine, because the threat to waterways or a terrorist threat at port of entry is not great.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Scarpaleggia.
Unfortunately, we're going to have to work that into another answer somewhere else here. We're over our time.
Mr. Scott.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Thank you for being here today.
You've been precise in saying that this legislation does not change anything that might relate to the exit procedures. We also have before the House Bill C-45, which amends subsection 107.1(1) of the Customs Act. Mr. Champagne was here from the Canada Border Services Agency, and he pointed out that this amendment will allow CBSA to get information before the departure of conveyances coming to Canada. I guess my question, maybe unfairly to you today, since you're not Mr. Champagne and it's not C-45, is whether the reverse applies. Does that amendment in Bill C-45 allow CBSA to get early information about people departing from Canada?
