Public Safety Committee on Feb. 26th, 2013

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

Would it concern you if the additional $9.8 million we talked about for handling harassment complaints and so on were held up in some way? Would that concern you, if that money wasn't forthcoming?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

It would disappoint me, but we'd figure it out.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

But it would cause you some challenge?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Yes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You don't have to answer this. I'll just point out that this legislation is not being held up by people on this side of the floor.

You've mentioned that you understand that you have a problem and you don't deny it. You've said you want to get on with it, which we certainly all applaud. Would it be easier to get on with it if people weren't in your face all the time publicly with allegations that aren't substantiated, which may or may not be true, but are merely allegations at this point?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Yes, it would. But let me put a caveat on that.

I get that we are a police force. I get that we have to be careful about how we manage ourselves. But the most disconcerting, the most troubling, component of recent developments is the idea, as I've said, that people are afraid to come forward and make complaints. There's a lot of media attention on these issues, properly, when they come out. But it is very distracting. I'll give you that.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

This is a bit of a philosophical question.

The RCMP has a culture like any similar organization. Is it fair to say that this culture is a work in progress in meeting the expectations of society as it is today?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

It is.

That's a question I get quite often, and I'm fascinated by the idea of influencing the culture. I think the culture has to be one of a successful police organization that succeeds in the mission that Canadians put on us. That's the culture I want to see developed.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

With respect to the challenges you've had with harassment, there are other large organizations, one of which you were previously a member of. That has had similar challenges. It relies on discipline, authority, structure, and has stressful operations; that's obviously the Canadian Forces. They've had some challenges.

I'm not saying this on behalf of them at all, but would you be open, hypothetically, to some assistance with some folks who may have had some experience on that side with a similar situation?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Absolutely. I'm open to anything.

I have a plan. I want to implement it. We have already reached out. The Canadian Forces is a great partner to the RCMP and we work together frequently and successfully. Both the previous Chief of the Defence Staff and this Chief of the Defence Staff have made a point of offering their support for anything that we need from them, and I'm grateful.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Switching to the issue of female membership, right now the Canadian Forces has 12%; the RCMP has 18% and is aiming for 30% female membership, which is laudable and ambitious. You talked about trying to get to a 50% intake of women within the next two years, which is obviously pretty ambitious.

What's your forecast or expectation of attrition? Do you expect to see a higher level of attrition overall within the training organization?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

There are some very interesting data in the action plan tracking the demographic challenges that we face. We have just increased our intake for this year at Depot. The 50% intake was based on a certain level of troops, year in, year in, to get us to 30% by 2025. Obviously the more cadets we take in, the quicker that will go, but we are somewhat disadvantaged by recent history when the force took in a lot of people. The retention rate in the organization is 99%, so despite all the discussions we've had, people stick around.

If I might just end quickly, one of the challenges with females is they tend to leave earlier. At 25 years they tend to go out the door, and we have to fix that.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You say there's 99% retention. That's obviously after they've been through Depot.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Yes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

What's your traditional attrition rate at Depot?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

I want to say 13%, but I could be corrected on that, so I'd say it's 13% to 20%.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

With this aggressive recruiting of women, which I think is great, do you expect that attrition rate to stay the same, go up, or go down?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

I would expect it to stay the same. We've tracked the reasons for some of that attrition, and a lot of it is because people did not understand what they were getting into.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Hawn. Your time has basically elapsed.

Mr. Commissioner, we want to thank you for attending our committee today and for your response to this timely report. Thank you for your commitment to live up to and fulfill the recommendations in this report.

Certainly we wish you all the best. I think all Canadians want to see some of these new recommendations put into practice so that they can feel confident in and appreciate, as we do, the work that you and the RCMP do.

Thank you very much, committee.

The meeting is adjourned.